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    (Original post by lɪŋgwɪst)
    I hate fake modesty, but I also hate arrogance.
    So you would hate anyone with talent then except those who don't realise how talented they are. Basically the only talented people you would like are naive, unconfident or deluded ones.
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    (Original post by Picnic1)
    So you would hate anyone with talent then except those who don't realise how talented they are. Basically the only talented people you would like are naive, unconfident or deluded ones.
    No, sorry, I can't figure out what you're on about.
    1. I don't hate anyone with talent.
    2. do you mean 'accept'? that point doesn't even make sense.

    fake modesty = people pretending to be modest, but actually loving it and milking it for all they can (the way I see it).
    arrogance = 'look at me, i'm better than you'
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    (Original post by lɪŋgwɪst)
    No, sorry, I can't figure out what you're on about.
    1. I don't hate anyone with talent.
    2. do you mean 'accept'? that point doesn't even make sense.

    fake modesty = people pretending to be modest, but actually loving it and milking it for all they can (the way I see it).
    arrogance = 'look at me, i'm better than you'
    people with talent are better than people without talent. they have every right to be. i hate this dumbing down of society where every one is supposed to bend over backwards to make useless retards feel better by making smart people feel embarrassed about their genius
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    people with talent are better than people without talent. they have every right to be. i hate this dumbing down of society where every one is supposed to bend over backwards to make useless retards feel better by making smart people feel embarrassed about their genius
    Well yeah, it's a good thing to have talent, obviously. There's no need to be arrogant about it though, that's what I mean.
    I think arrogance is an ugly trait, much more so than modesty.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i hate modesty. i have always thought that people who have talents or good fortune should be proud of that....it is unfair, illogical and self destuctive that our society thinks people should basically be embarassed about their strengths...it's an insult to the brilliant and a terrible message to send to the young.

    why should you be modest? how can it be a good thing to play yourself down just to make less talented people feel better? this is unnatural and stupid and annoys me.

    ''people with money never talk about it''....this is often said by poor people to make them feel better about wealthy people who have dared to be at all proud of their achievments, how darew they, it proves that modesty is only a way of making less able people feel better. personally, i think this is horrible. modesty is ugly and the clever, wealthy, successful and such should have the right to be proud about their greatness and feel free to shout it from the rooftops.

    envy is an equally disgusting trait and it is the driving force between the pressure on people to be modest imo.
    You're american, right?
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    Modesty is a form of sensitivity. When one feels the need to boast about ones achievements, it indicates an underlying insecurity. Modesty is being comfortable in ones achievements without trying to make others feel inadequate as a result.
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    (Original post by lɪŋgwɪst)
    Well yeah, it's a good thing to have talent, obviously. There's no need to be arrogant about it though, that's what I mean.
    I think arrogance is an ugly trait, much more so than modesty.
    but if arrogance is thinking you are better than other people....then if you are better than other people what's wrong in thinking it? it's a denial of the truth and nature....a neurosis as nietzsche called it...and i thbink he was rght. oh, and no, he wasnt a fascist or a nazi btw

    like i said im not talented...i know that talented people are better than me. if everyone in history was like me there'd be no aeroplanes, space program, we wouldnt be living past 30, who'd have removed my aunt's brain tumor? you get me? this is what the thread was about...although many have misquoted me as if i'm some kind of upper class snob who is launching a polemic advocating the extermination of the poor...which is bull...like i said i'm poor and average in every other way. the great minds are what gave us what our modern world has and all my thread is about is that i think it's sick that british culture thinks these contribuors to humanity, these geniuses and life givers many of who are not even born yet but will go on to make us all the better off should be embarrassed of what they have done. they shouldnt....they should be seen as better than everyone else because they damn well are and by reducing their social position to make joe public like me and u feel less inadequate is a load of jealous nonsense and it winds me up. lviing on a **** estate with loads of chavs who think anyone who ever did gcses or earnt 30k pa let alone got a degree or phd or discovered gravity should be shunned have just made me really passionately against this namby pamby modest crap.

    british culture seems to worship the lowest common denominator
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    (Original post by Paul_r)
    You're american, right?
    no but wish i was. there is a nation that is proud of itself and where the successdul are hailed and revered....not treated as a threat like they are in envious, miserable britain

    the uk is the world's ''cant do'' country.
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    Some of us like to have a card hidden up our sleeves.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    but if arrogance is thinking you are better than other people....then if you are better than other people what's wrong in thinking it? it's a denial of the truth and nature....a neurosis as nietzsche called it...and i thbink he was rght. oh, and no, he wasnt a fascist or a nazi btw

    like i said im not talented...i know that talented people are better than me. if everyone in history was like me there'd be no aeroplanes, space program, we wouldnt be living past 30, who'd have removed my aunt's brain tumor? you get me? this is what the thread was about...although many have misquoted me as if i'm some kind of upper class snob who is launching a polemic advocating the extermination of the poor...which is bull...like i said i'm poor and average in every other way. the great minds are what gave us what our modern world has and all my thread is about is that i think it's sick that british culture thinks these contribuors to humanity, these geniuses and life givers many of who are not even born yet but will go on to make us all the better off should be embarrassed of what they have done. they shouldnt....they should be seen as better than everyone else because they damn well are and by reducing their social position to make joe public like me and u feel less inadequate is a load of jealous nonsense and it winds me up. lviing on a **** estate with loads of chavs who think anyone who ever did gcses or earnt 30k pa let alone got a degree or phd or discovered gravity should be shunned have just made me really passionately against this namby pamby modest crap.

    british culture seems to worship the lowest common denominator
    What?! no one's making them feel embarrassed!! Accepting your talent and achievement is one thing, but gloating about it is arrogance. I agree that they should be acknowledged, yeah, that's fine. I don't think my points are getting through....
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    Yes arrogance is a worse trait. It depends what you mean by modesty. Someone needs not to go around boasting of their success. When someone is asked about their achievements I don't like it when they are to modest about it. The worst type of people to me are those who think they are better than others for being more talented in an area.
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    (Original post by improving4eva)
    Yes arrogance is a worse trait. It depends what you mean by modesty. Someone needs not to go around boasting of their success. When someone is asked about their achievements I don't like it when they are to modest about it. The worst type of people to me are those who think they are better than others for being more talented in an area.
    :top:
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    (Original post by lɪŋgwɪst)
    What?! no one's making them feel embarrassed!! Accepting your talent and achievement is one thing, but gloating about it is arrogance. I agree that they should be acknowledged, yeah, that's fine. I don't think my points are getting through....
    IMO the massive pressure on people to be modest creates a climate where high achievers may feel embarassed to discuss or be publicly proud of what they have done....after not everyone wants to be modest...so surpressing their want for pride by becoming so because society has applied pressure on them is imo effectively society making people feel embarrassed.

    and i have no problem with people gloating. insulting...not good. but when people gloat, unless unjustifiably like when they are useless, if they have reason too it is fantastic. mayb e i'm odd, but i love to see people feeling good whenh they've achieved something...makes a pleasent change from chavs who aspire to be drug dealers and beat up students.

    why cant some people deal with smart people gloating? i'm not that smart and i dont care. i think it's great...they could be a future brain surgeon of found a huge company which helps the ecomomy grow. what's the problem? dont these superior people deserve to feel superior?
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    (Original post by lɪŋgwɪst)
    No, sorry, I can't figure out what you're on about.
    1. I don't hate anyone with talent.
    2. do you mean 'accept'? that point doesn't even make sense.

    fake modesty = people pretending to be modest, but actually loving it and milking it for all they can (the way I see it).
    arrogance = 'look at me, i'm better than you'
    You said 'I hate fake modesty, but I also hate arrogance'.
    So if someone was talented but had fake modesty or arrogance you would hate them. And if someone was untalented but had fake modesty or arrogance you would also hate them. So you would hate some people with talent.

    You might not hate them equally but you would still hate each of them, or at least hate the traits they display, based on what you initially said.

    I put the word that I meant to - 'except'.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i hate modesty. i have always thought that people who have talents or good fortune should be proud of that....it is unfair, illogical and self destuctive that our society thinks people should basically be embarassed about their strengths...it's an insult to the brilliant and a terrible message to send to the young.

    why should you be modest? how can it be a good thing to play yourself down just to make less talented people feel better? this is unnatural and stupid and annoys me.

    ''people with money never talk about it''....this is often said by poor people to make them feel better about wealthy people who have dared to be at all proud of their achievments, how darew they, it proves that modesty is only a way of making less able people feel better. personally, i think this is horrible. modesty is ugly and the clever, wealthy, successful and such should have the right to be proud about their greatness and feel free to shout it from the rooftops.

    envy is an equally disgusting trait and it is the driving force between the pressure on people to be modest imo.
    You are a punk. You obviously are just trying to justify to yourself and others that you're nobbut a showoff.
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    You are a punk. You obviously are just trying to justify to yourself and others that you're nobbut a showoff.
    show off about what exactly? i'm not a genius, talented or rich. i just dont understand why people who are good at things should play it down. to appease the envious seems the only reason.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    show off about what exactly? i'm not a genius, talented or rich. i just dont understand why people who are good at things should play it down. to appease the envious seems the only reason.
    There are those of us who have plenty to show off about. We just have no reason to brag about it. Yes, I'll not lie about something, but I won't go around advertizing it, generally. However, it sometimes suits my purpose to be modest about things (for example, in talent competitions, I like to keep it quiet that I perform to a professional standard, so that I take judges by surprise).
 
 
 
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