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The Death of Respect watch

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    Anyone else catch this on Thurs? Very interesting viewing.

    Obviously it got the graveyard 11.20 slot despite the compellingly relevant subject matter - as according to Peter Whittle in the Telegraph blog "Perhaps many of its observations and conclusions are just too rich for BBC blood."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...odern-britain/

    Anyway here's the Iplayer link
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ect_Episode_1/

    Obviously there will be flippant responses, since this is tsr and thats the nature of it... but for me the opening scene discussing how funeral processions are now beeped out of the way incontestably demonstrates our social decline.
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    Sounds interesting. I've got to watch this documentary about the Reign of Terror after the French revolution first but after that I will watch it.
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    Illiberal social rules and conventions can't die soon enough.

    Edit - Good lord, though, what kind of ass attacks a firefighter trying to do his job? That's just disgusting.
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    I saw this programme on Thursday night whilst I watched Newsnight on the other channel simultaneously. It was ironic because one of the audience members asked whether one of the senior members of the opposition in parliament was correct to propose that young people who behave unruly should have their phones and bikes taken away. This lead to a discussion about the youth, but unfortunately no panel member could successfully link the ideas of this programme (which included attending church) with the decline of the respect of today’s youth.

    I personally agree with the programme. I thought it was great viewing. One interviewee remarked that 'if you weren’t at church 15 mins before it started you'd have to stand', and another remarked that the biggest change in todays youth was the 'absence of consequence'. These are two major issues I believe. I live in London, and it is quite common to see people of our age behave inappropriately towards each other and elders.

    The timeslot was silly, it should have been on at 9pm so the whole family could discuss it.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Sounds interesting. I've got to watch this documentary about the Reign of Terror after the French revolution first but after that I will watch it.

    Thanks for putting that link up. Did you study Wordsworth for English Lit? This is very good for that.
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    It's always more exciting to declare it a decline.
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    Notice the phrase "think tank". More like a special interest group.
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    I thought this program was fairly moronic despite the potential. Most of it seemed to be unscientific one-sided assertion - e.g. Church attendence has declined. The result is a steep increase in knife crime - and the rest seemed to be lamenting the loss of our values, blah, blah, blah, as if there were ever a golden age of Britain. Coincidentally, the BNP have a nice video beginning "remeber England before the immigrants? Everything was perfect".

    It is said that the older you become, the more right-wing you become. I seriously hope I do not become another old fart complaining about change and using this kind of woeful attempt at evidence to support it.
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    :lolwut:
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    The 'death of respect' is a consequence of the rise of individualism.
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    I don't know if I've mentioned this one before but there's a great little book by Geoffrey Pearson called Hooligan: A History of Respectable Fears (Macmillan, 1983). Pearson does a good job of illustrating how successive generations repeat the same lament of an apparent 'rise' in disrepsect and bad behaviour (from anxieties over ancient Greek and Roman youth gangs to those of the 1950's Teddy Boy era) and which which are set against idealised recent pasts.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    The 'death of respect' is a consequence of the rise of individualism.
    Respect is to be earned; the sort of statism that you advocate simply attempts to force it out of people. That's not respect, it's fear.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Respect is to be earned; the sort of statism that you advocate simply attempts to force it out of people. That's not respect, it's fear.
    Again, an area of disagreement.

    Respect does not have to be earnt. It is ours as a right because of being a human being.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Again, an area of disagreement.

    Respect does not have to be earnt. It is ours as a right because of being a human being.
    If that's the case, then it's entirely worthless. If a person can lay claim to something without the slightest degree of goodness, virtue or decency within him then it is pointless.

    I value the respect I give to others, I'd say it's probably the most valuable thing I can give to another person; as such, I don't give it freely to anyone - and certainly not by force.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    If that's the case, then it's entirely worthless. If a person can lay claim to something without the slightest degree of goodness, virtue or decency within him then it is pointless.

    I value the respect I give to others, I'd say it's probably the most valuable thing I can give to another person; as such, I don't give it freely to anyone - and certainly not by force.
    I find your views incompatible with Christian teaching. Surprising, since you profess to be a Christian.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    I don't know if I've mentioned this one before but there's a great little book by Geoffrey Pearson called Hooligan: A History of Respectable Fears (Macmillan, 1983). Pearson does a good job of illustrating how successive generations repeat the same lament of an apparent 'rise' in disrepsect and bad behaviour (from anxieties over ancient Greek and Roman youth gangs to those of the 1950's Teddy Boy era) and which which are set against idealised recent pasts.
    If you watch the programme, you'll find that it isn't a simple tirade against a feckless youth who only need a good bout of national service or something similar. I admit that it does contain a small amount of nostalgia, but on the whole the presenter offers a well-balanced and specific view of why there has been a surge of lawlessness, abusive drinking, intimidatory behaviour and the like in the past decades. He basically pinpoints unbridled individualism as the cause for the ills, whether it is the social individualism born of the 1960s, which has lead to an underlying attitude of "I can do whatever I want to do and bugger everybody else", or the economic individualism of 1980s and Thatcherism, which has thrown anything deemed "inefficient" on the dustheap, and to hell with the social costs, meaning at least two generations of persistent unemployment in many regions.
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    Some thoughts:

    1) the comments on swearing show a strange approach to language. it wants to reinforce taboos about certain words, even though the taboos around those words are nothing but the maintenance of those taboos (beyond simply desiring taboos to intensify language) has no strong moral or social justification. swearing adds colour, mood and power to language; it doesn't show a lack of dignity. search for stephen fry on swearing on YouTube if you want to see a passionate defence of the joy of swearing.

    2) it is exceptionally intellectually dodgy to base value systems on religions that one doesn't believe in. it is right to throw away the ten commandments if they unsupported commandments from ancient writers thinking the commandments were the words of a non-existent god. besides implicitly pointing out that following the commandments but being non-religious was intellectually bankrupt and therefore moved away from, it's not clear what is being suggested in its place.

    3) it is not made clear why a ceremony and piece of paper really make a relationship all that much better. there seems to be a confusion, and no desire to distinguish, between marriage (a state-recognized relationship) and stable relationships.

    generally, there was far too much reliance on anecdotal evidence and the corresponding shallow analysis.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    I find your views incompatible with Christian teaching. Surprising, since you profess to be a Christian.
    I find a lot of your views to be incompatible therewith too. Clearly we have rather different interpretations of the matter.
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    (Original post by Rowley Birkin, QC)
    If you watch the programme, you'll find that it isn't a simple tirade against a feckless youth who only need a good bout of national service or something similar. I admit that it does contain a small amount of nostalgia, but on the whole the presenter offers a well-balanced and specific view of why there has been a surge of lawlessness, abusive drinking, intimidatory behaviour and the like in the past decades. He basically pinpoints unbridled individualism as the cause for the ills, whether it is the social individualism born of the 1960s, which has lead to an underlying attitude of "I can do whatever I want to do and bugger everybody else", or the economic individualism of 1980s and Thatcherism, which has thrown anything deemed "inefficient" on the dustheap, and to hell with the social costs, meaning at least two generations of persistent unemployment in many regions.
    Yeah, but has there really been a 'surge of lawlessness'? Pearson's book does a good job of arguing that things like lawlessness, drunkeness and anti-social behaviour aren't really anything new at all in large urban societies (or rural ones for that matter) and instead he argues that what actually happens is that each generation among the genteel classes 'discovers' all this stuff anew - it is thus a sense of discovery of, and sensitivity to, bad behaviour and crime which is the actual phenomenon.
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    I think respect here is being confused with common courteous behaviour. Which clearly there is a lack of. To say that this has to be earned is ludicrous because it goes against the many years of tradition it has up held. But for respect, perhaps it should be earned but that is so either. Drop the line that you graduated from Oxford with a first class honours degree and there you have earned respect, you haven’t earned the persons respect and you may only have known them for 10mins. He/she may be a bigot or arrogant person.

    The programme is speaking of general community values, where most people recognised that they
    themselves were human and others around them.
 
 
 
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