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    Economically Capitalist, Socially...Socialist (God that sounds jarring).

    I like me my meritocracy och aye I do, but I also like a sense of restraint such that it comes within reason. For instance, I don't mind people owning fancy cars and houses, I don't approve of it but I won't begrudge a man his right to wave his...jolly roger about. What I will begrudge is when I have to turn on Channel Four and be treated to a bunch of women, using the female version of the camp voice, going 'oh I don't know, it's a bit bling bling, but £20,000 for these handbags do really give me a classy image.'

    Actually, anyone who ever says bling bling in front of me invariably ends up next to Coco the hamster in my back garden, so you know. But seriously, my major problems are just an issue of self indulgence, I can't stand this excessive desire in certain areas of society to build up an ideal of self worth based on arbitrarily priced accessories which have all the intrinsic value of a JML product. As such, I consider myself something of a State Capitalist/State Socialist based on which of the two you prefer to use as the label.

    It should be noted though this is a very watered down summary of my motives, I didn't actually judge my entire socio-economic outlook based on Gok sodding Wan.
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    Moderate capitalist but support the case for state ownership of important utilities/infrastructure.
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    (Original post by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher)
    It seems to me most people become more socialist the more they learn about politics and ethics. Most outright capitalists are politically uneducated although they might not be thick, but when it comes to the ethics, their thinking is totally flawed.
    So you counter his flawed generalisation with another flawed generalisation? That doesn't hold up I'm afraid. As a matter of fact I used to be a socialist only to then become a capitalist when I discovered more about politics.
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    Anarcho-communist I suppose.

    I just despise capitalism and the money-grabbing culture that permeates western society - get rid of all rulings, work as a community and just ****ing love one another.
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    (Original post by HarveyCanis)
    So you counter his flawed generalisation with another flawed generalisation? That doesn't hold up I'm afraid. As a matter of fact I used to be a socialist only to then become a capitalist when I discovered more about politics.
    Lol, TSR is lost on the concept of irony. Oh and I've not met anyone who's gone through such a transition.
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    (Original post by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher)
    It seems to me most people become more socialist the more they learn about politics and ethics. Most outright capitalists are politically uneducated although they might not be thick, but when it comes to the ethics, their thinking is totally flawed.
    Arguments?

    In fact, most professional ethicists (and most professional political philosophers, political scientists, etc) support some kind of capitalism. They are probably mostly social democrats/left liberals but they're still in favour of private property and markets - i.e. capitalism.

    Now I dunno what an "outright" capitalist is so maybe you mean something different.

    Nevertheless the fact remains. Most politically educated people are capitalist. This proves nothing ofc but you need to get your facts right.
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    Anacho-capitalist. No, I'm not greedy ********. I believe in voluntarism.
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    (Original post by EffieFlowers)
    Do you have anything vaguely constructive to say? I've been disappointed twice now.
    Likewise
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    I'm somewhere in-between. I can appreciate the pros of free-market capitalism, such as the associated individual freedoms and benefits of market competition, but I dislike the idea of living in world controlled entirely by market forces and money. I also see the logic and intended fairness behind socialism, but part of me looks back on past failures such as the Soviet Union, and fears a life of restriction and loss of individual freedom.

    I essentially believe in social capitalism (or as I like to call it, 'capitalism on a leash')
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    (Original post by EffieFlowers)
    You still 'reap your rewards' under a socialist system?

    And also, you've done that annoying thing where you suggest that income and hard working are positively correlated.

    Capitalist and socialist are way to overused by people who don't know enough to classify themselves as such, no offence meant, I don't know enough either.


    (Original post by Sammydemon)
    Oh yes, like those premiership footballers that work 100x harder than a heart surgeon... Capitalism is a very unfair system and I don't see how it's "better than the alternatives". It may be better for you.
    Income and hard work ARE positively correlated. My Dad earns more than anyone else I know, and he also works the hardest and the longest hours of anyone I know; I'm talking 18 or 19 hours per day, often with no weekends for months on end.

    Some people do better under a socialist system, but frankly people working as hard and for as long as my Dad deserve to reap more rewards than someone working in a shop for 10 hours a week.
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    Most people aren't just 'socialist' or 'capitalist'. Political ideologies are more complex than that...
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    (Original post by The Last Baron)
    Most people aren't just 'socialist' or 'capitalist'. Political ideologies are more complex than that...
    Exactly. I believe some things that are quite right wing and others which are considered quite left wing.

    To simply say you are a socialist or a capitalist is such a closed minded approach to politics. It is not a black and white area (or at least it shouldn't be).
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    (Original post by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher)
    It seems to me most people become more socialist the more they learn about politics and ethics. Most outright capitalists are politically uneducated although they might not be thick, but when it comes to the ethics, their thinking is totally flawed.
    This is correct. Most academic sociological/politics students etc are left-wing. But, considering both capitalist and socialism aren't political ideologies rather economic system, you might be interested to know most economist are capitalist. What does that say?
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    This is correct. Most academic sociological/politics students etc are left-wing. But, considering both capitalist and socialism aren't political ideologies rather economic system, you might be interested to know most economist are capitalist. What does that say?
    No it's not correct. Most academics are left-wing but they're not socialist. They're social democrats and so are most economists (63% according to one survey) ofc.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Politic...s_of_academics

    Liberal in this context = social democrat.

    Social democrats are capitalists.
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    (Original post by SoberFox)
    No it's not correct. Most academics are left-wing but they're not socialist. They're social democrats and so are most economists (63% according to one survey) ofc.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Politic...s_of_academics

    Liberal in this context = social democrat.

    Social democrats are capitalists.
    From another study I saw, it stated that half economist were voting republican. Anyway, it's all too confusing because people use different terms in different context. My point was simply that, economist are generally less left-wing and more right-wing than their social science/humanities counterparts.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    From another study I saw, it stated that half economist were voting republican. Anyway, it's all too confusing because people use different terms in different context. My point was simply that, economist are generally less left-wing and more right-wing than their social science/humanities counterparts.
    The person you quoted talked about people becoming more "socialist" as they get more politically literate.

    It's not the case. We know that academic political scientists (a politically literate group) are more left-wing than the general public but they are not socialist. They are as capitalist as, say, Brown or Blair any other social democrat you can think of.

    Economists are only somewhat less "left-wing" than, e.g., sociologists but not significantly less. 63% of them describe themselves as liberal.
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    (Original post by SoberFox)
    The person you quoted talked about people becoming more "socialist" as they get more politically literate.

    It's not the case. We know that academic political scientists (a politically literate group) are more left-wing than the general public but they are not socialist. They are as capitalist as, say, Brown or Blair any other social democrat you can think of.

    Economists are only somewhat less "left-wing" than, e.g., sociologists but not significantly less. 63% of them describe themselves as liberal.
    Yeah I know but rarely anyone is a "real" socialist or capitalist hence I'm just assuming his going by the loose definitions. The fact that social democrats falls under socialism on wiki shows that. I very much doubt that's true, sociologist are notorious for being one of the most left-leaning profession. See ver+98+percent+of+the+sample+has +a+score+below+3.0,+and+not+a+si ngle+member+has+a+score+above+4. 0.+It+appears+that+the+number+of +classical+liberals&hl=en&sa=X&e i=MdtDT52MPOHJ0QXC6sCPDw&ved=0CD gQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=[O]ver%2098%20percent%20of%20the%20 sample%20has%20a%20score%20below %203.0%2C%20and%20not%20a%20sing le%20member%20has%20a%20score%20 above%204.0.%20It%20appears%20th at%20the%20number%20of%20classic al%20liberals&f=false]here for some evidence. Also, I'm more talking economics than politics. I don't expect economist to not be socially liberal.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Yeah I know but rarely anyone is a "real" socialist or capitalist hence I'm just assuming his going by the loose definitions. The fact that social democrats falls under socialism on wiki shows that. I very much doubt that's true, sociologist are notorious for being one of the most left-leaning profession. See ver+98+percent+of+the+sample+has +a+score+below+3.0,+and+not+a+si ngle+member+has+a+score+above+4. 0.+It+appears+that+the+number+of +classical+liberals&hl=en&sa=X&e i=MdtDT52MPOHJ0QXC6sCPDw&ved=0CD gQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=[O]ver%2098%20percent%20of%20the%20 sample%20has%20a%20score%20below %203.0%2C%20and%20not%20a%20sing le%20member%20has%20a%20score%20 above%204.0.%20It%20appears%20th at%20the%20number%20of%20classic al%20liberals&f=false]here for some evidence. Also, I'm more talking economics than politics. I don't expect economist to not be socially liberal.
    Well the fact is that all major western capitalist countries are social democracies. So I don't know why social democrats aren't capitalists.

    And, again, liberal in America refers to social democrat. They are probably socially liberal but that's not what they mean when they say they're "liberal".
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    Capitalist.

    Because we're hung like mother****ers.
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    (Original post by funsongfactory)
    Income and hard work ARE positively correlated. My Dad earns more than anyone else I know, and he also works the hardest and the longest hours of anyone I know; I'm talking 18 or 19 hours per day, often with no weekends for months on end.
    Of course there are examples of hard work correlating to high income but that doesn't apply to a lot of people. Take a dustbin man for example who, with a disadvantaged background has few qualifications. He could work his socks of day after day but still earn barely enough to feed his family, he does not have the opportunity to progress. This is generally seen as unfair. He does not have the starting capital to create a business and people may not choose to employ him becuase of his lack of qualifications, he also doesn't have the money to return to education. This man has reached a dead end and will find it very difficult to improve his income/quality of life.
 
 
 
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