Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    A society where hard work = success would be a form of socialism. Capitalism, on the other hand, is based around a powerful minority leeching of those who do genuinely work hard.
    Not really. In a socialist state no one person can succeed through hard work because your reward is fixed by the state either directly or indirectly. Socialism does not give incentive to work hard because however hard you work, you get the same that the lazy scum living next door does, therefore doing hard work makes you a retard = fail.

    Capitalism does not rely on exploitation or 'leeching' [ironically, it is in a socialist state where the poor leech off the successful to stay alive through government aid], though it can be used if a clever individual (being clever = having human capital) notices that people who are mentally inferior (less skills i.e. less/poor human capital) will work for them for cheap because their low level of skills means that their labour is not worth much.

    In a capitalist society, no one can become rich and maintain their wealth without providing others with incomes (money) through buying their goods, or employing them. This means that in capitalism there is a built in mechanism for helping others, in a way that those who have the most human capital (and employ it most effectively) will get the most financial benefit, and those who have little human capital (uneducated [someone like you], lazy, dumb, poor attitude) will get the least financial benefit. Due to this, those with inferior genes/social beliefs will end up poor, and unable to provide for their offspring, hence allowing necessary natural selection to take place. However in the socialist society, these types of people are maintained in society by the state that thinks everyone can be taken care of, even if they do nothing productive in their life.

    I would advise you not to air your opinions on things you obviously have little (or distorted) knowledge on. Many reasonable people who are not strongly pro-capitalist still accept that it is much better than socialism and do so because they can accept that if someone is educated in the area, then they probably know more. Please take that on board and stop thinking you know about the system that you oppose.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EffieFlowers)
    Sorry if I annoyed you in some way, I often don't take things too seriously and they sometimes come across more serious/ harsh than I really mean.
    It's ok, and you like MSP which can only be a good thing! :-)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hermóðr)
    This is an incredibly stupid and simplistic argument, just as the argument from socialists that the working classes are being oppressed and that we proles must all overthrow the elites in a bloody Marxist revolution is stupid and simplistic.
    its simplistic, so what? this is the student room not a dissertation, idiot.
    how can you compare it to that clap trap you just spouted out, like really?
    its stupid? compared to yours? no its blunt and too the core point.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I don't know, don't really want to be a part of either one. Is there an alternative?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sammydemon)
    However, without that single element of chance that many rely on, no matter how small it may seem, they would not be in their current position.
    Prove it.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Both. I really wish the OP didn't have to resort to ad hominem attacks, though. :mad:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JuKaMy)
    Not really. In a socialist state no one person can succeed through hard work because your reward is fixed by the state either directly or indirectly.
    If there ever was a 'socialist state' (while the term isn't a contradiction, it doesn't really make sense), it would do no such thing.

    however hard you work, you get the same that the lazy scum living next door does
    No, that's not true either.

    Capitalism does not rely on exploitation or 'leeching'
    The very nature of capitalism is that workers are paid less than the value of what they produce.

    I would advise you not to air your opinions on things you obviously have little (or distorted) knowledge on.
    You very cleary, and what you have posted indicates also very wrongly, have a hugely inflated opinion of yourself. The 'arguments' against socialism you have proposed are some of the most basic strawmen, and show that you obviously know nothing about what socialism advocates, not even to the extent of looking up the definition of the word socialism.

    Many reasonable people who are not strongly pro-capitalist still accept that it is much better than socialism and do so because they can accept that if someone is educated in the area, then they probably know more.
    You are simply making up any old nonsense off the cuff now to pad out your post. Anyone can say 'many reasonable people' do anything, you're pretending that you actually have some sort of authority behind you when you quite obviously don't. Here's some advice; go away and grow up before debating again.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    If there ever was a 'socialist state' (while the term isn't a contradiction, it doesn't really make sense), it would do no such thing.



    No, that's not true either.



    The very nature of capitalism is that workers are paid less than the value of what they produce.



    You very cleary, and what you have posted indicates also very wrongly, have a hugely inflated opinion of yourself. The 'arguments' against socialism you have proposed are some of the most basic strawmen, and show that you obviously know nothing about what socialism advocates, not even to the extent of looking up the definition of the word socialism.


    You are simply making up any old nonsense off the cuff now to pad out your post. Anyone can say 'many reasonable people' do anything, you're pretending that you actually have some sort of authority behind you when you quite obviously don't. Here's some advice; go away and grow up before debating again.
    Typical socialist student turd.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ethnic North Euro)
    Typical socialist student turd.
    I congratulate you on your well-reasoned, well researched and complete argument, and definitely not showing yourself to be pathetic and childish.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    If there ever was a 'socialist state' (while the term isn't a contradiction, it doesn't really make sense), it would do no such thing.
    Name:  TSR 1.png
Views: 45
Size:  27.9 KB
    Can you read English? Or do i have to explain that i just owned you?

    The very nature of capitalism is that workers are paid less than the value of what they produce.
    This isn't exactly the definition of exploitation. If everyone got paid the same as the value of the product they make, there would be no incentive in the system for businesses to employ people and hence provide people with welfare (nor the products in the first place - good luck living in a cave :curious:. Your point is... pointless??


    You very cleary, and what you have posted indicates also very wrongly, have a hugely inflated opinion of yourself. The 'arguments' against socialism you have proposed are some of the most basic strawmen, and show that you obviously know nothing about what socialism advocates, not even to the extent of looking up the definition of the word socialism.

    You are simply making up any old nonsense off the cuff now to pad out your post. Anyone can say 'many reasonable people' do anything, you're pretending that you actually have some sort of authority behind you when you quite obviously don't. Here's some advice; go away and grow up before debating again.
    Now you're just talking so much s*** it's painful to read. You need to know when you've lost.

    Anyway, by the sound of it you must be used to failing at life, as you've fully embraced the do-nothing-and-get-supported-by-the-state socialist mentality, so hopefully you don't care too much that it's happened once again :laugh:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ethnic North Euro)
    Typical socialist student turd.
    What are we going to do :'( they spawn too fast :laugh:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JuKaMy)
    Name:  TSR 1.png
Views: 45
Size:  27.9 KB
    Can you read English? Or do i have to explain that i just owned you?
    Oh, it says it on Wikipedia, so it must be true......:rolleyes:



    This isn't exactly the definition of exploitation. If everyone got paid the same as the value of the product they make, there would be no incentive in the system for businesses to employ people
    Which is precisely the problem of capitalism. Workers are underpaid and employers parasites by design. Which is why socialism proposes common/worker ownership of the means of production, so that the problem is removed.



    Now you're just talking so much s*** it's painful to read. You need to know when you've lost.
    Danth's Law (also known as Parker's Law) states:
    “If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly.”


    Anyway, by the sound of it you must be used to failing at life, as you've fully embraced the do-nothing-and-get-supported-by-the-state socialist mentality, so hopefully you don't care too much that it's happened once again :laugh:
    You are genuinely pathetic. You post a thread about something you don't have a clue about and proceed to attempt to insult people you've never met and don't know the first thing about, because they disagree with you.

    I have the word 'anarchism' in my username for a reason, you know? And it's not being pro-state.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The very nature of capitalism is that workers are paid less than the value of what they produce.
    Lol, the Labour Theory of Value. That one's pretty much defunct, mate.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    Lol, the Labour Theory of Value. That one's pretty much defunct, mate.
    I'm yet to hear any alternative proposal as to where value comes from.

    There are slightly more arguments against the specific Marxist LTV in the details, but I'm still yet to hear a refutation of it. Most critiques of it simply talk past it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I have the word 'anarchism' in my username for a reason, you know?
    Yes, I did notice that.
    Indicates that you obviously cannot live in a society with guidelines that would require you to do something useful and productive with your life

    It's so ironic you call private sector employers parasites when the true parasites are those who leech of a socialist welfare state or from others in society who are more equipped to survive.

    It's not a problem of a capitalist society if it keeps the bottom of the gene pool out of money and power (i.e. people like you) - socialism created more problems and solves about 0

    You can keep going on as long as you like - it won't make you any better than you are. And most definitely won't make you achieve more than i will
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I'm yet to hear any alternative proposal as to where value comes from.

    There are slightly more arguments against the specific Marxist LTV in the details, but I'm still yet to hear a refutation of it. Most critiques of it simply talk past it.
    What about the so-called transformation problem?

    Edit: Also, an alternative is utility which is a more commonsensical way to measure value than labour hours.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I'm yet to hear any alternative proposal as to where value comes from.

    There are slightly more arguments against the specific Marxist LTV in the details, but I'm still yet to hear a refutation of it. Most critiques of it simply talk past it.
    You explain it. I destroy it. Deal?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SoberFox)
    What about the so-called transformation problem?
    trust me, he's on wiki right now
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JuKaMy)
    Yes, I did notice that.
    Indicates that you obviously cannot live in a society with guidelines that would require you to do something useful and productive with your life
    There's this thing called a need for food to live which kind of necessitates you do something productive if you don't have a state.

    It's so ironic you call private sector employers parasites when the true parasites are those who leech of a socialist welfare state or from others in society who are more equipped to survive.
    'Socialist welfare state' is an oxymoron. Welfare states only exist in capitalist economies.

    It's not a problem of a capitalist society if it keeps the bottom of the gene pool out of money and power (i.e. people like you) - socialism created more problems and solves about 0

    You can keep going on as long as you like - it won't make you any better than you are. And most definitely won't make you achieve more than i will
    You really are a pathetic little child, aren't you?

    If you feel the need to come onto an internet forum and make pathetic attempts to puff up your own ego and try and insult people you don't know, then you've probably achieved less than most 5 year olds and I wouldn't expect that to change unless you grow up.

    By all means, if you have some weird self-esteem problem that forces you to act like a child and try and pretend via random attacks that you actually belong on a site that it supposed to be for educated discussion, continue to post your babyish rants, but don't expect people to take you seriously in a debate.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Einstein was a socialist. So was Tesla. So was Da Vinci. So are most smart people.

    I used to be a capitalist though...

    I won't bother arguing with capitalists over the internet.

    I'll just leave this here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxYyXGMfZM
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you rather give up salt or pepper?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.