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    I'm a communist.

    End off debate.
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    Im a capitalist.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    As mentioned above, there is no alternative source of value other than labour.
    So natural resources like land have no value? The lovely view of a mountain for example...
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    So natural resources like land have no value? The lovely view of a mountain for example...
    When I say value, I'm talking in purely economic terms. I mean exchange value
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    I've been know to be socialist.
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    Generally speaking a capitalist, but socially a socialist. That is to say, socialism can work but only voluntarily. You can't FORCE people to be socialist, human nature is too selfish to allow for that. It is worth noting that Marx fought for the working class and his policies in no way advocated a welfare state. He would be disgusted by welfare dependence as much as Osborne. However, socialism can work between people who want it to work. Personally I am a meritocrat, which means I believe you should be paid by how good you are at your job, not by what arbitrary 'rank' society gives these jobs. If someone is a good manager, pay them to be so. If someone is a good and efficient cleaner, pay them to be so. Could you imagine if people took the rules of capitalism seriously? We would have no binmen or nurses.

    The long and short of it is: capitalism gives you the freedom to be socialist if you want to, socialism doesn't give you the freedom to be a capitalist.
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    I guess probably more capitalist than socialist, socialism is all very well in theory, but in practice it really doesn't work.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    When I say value, I'm talking in purely economic terms. I mean exchange value
    So there is no economic value to a lovely view. Nobody would pay anything to see it?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    When I say value, I'm talking in purely economic terms. I mean exchange value
    How does a lovely mountain, along with it's mining potential, views and land space for production uses have no economic value? That makes no sense. When you own a mountain please get in touch because i'll happily pay nothing for it
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    So there is no economic value to a lovely view. Nobody would pay anything to see it?
    Unless you have created the view in some way, what gives you the right to charge anyone to see the view?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Unless you have created the view in some way, what gives you the right to charge anyone to see the view?
    from far away - nothing does
    from closer - property rights. But you couldn't possibly respect property rights, anarchism101
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Unless you have created the view in some way, what gives you the right to charge anyone to see the view?
    That does not answer the question.
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    (Original post by JuKaMy)
    How does a lovely mountain, along with it's mining potential, views and land space for production uses have no economic value?
    Precisely my point. But the labour theory of value says such natural things have no value.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Precisely my point. But the labour theory of value says such natural things have no value.
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    You really are a pathetic little child, aren't you?
    So if I, a pathetic little child, can come to that conclusion :ahee:
    Then what does that make anarchism101?
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    That does not answer the question.
    Yes it does. Things that aren't exchanged don't have exchange value.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Yes it does. Things that aren't exchanged don't have exchange value.
    Distinguish between exchange value and labour value then.

    (btw mountain views do not have exchange value, they cannot be exchanged. And they are not created by labour)
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    Socialists do not care if the poor are poorer, so long as the rich aren't richer.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Distinguish between exchange value and labour value then.
    You could say they're the same thing. Marx said the former is the representation of the latter. Exchange value is, in short, the average price, and labour value is the amount of labour it took to make the good in question.

    (btw mountain views do not have exchange value, they cannot be exchanged. And they are not created by labour)
    Yes. Hence no value under the LTV definition of value.

    You're free to disagree with this use of the word value, but doing so is not an argument against the LTV.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    You could say they're the same thing. Marx said the former is the representation of the latter. Exchange value is, in short, the average price, and labour value is the amount of labour it took to make the good in question.
    Where do prices come from?
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Where do prices come from?
    Prices come from whoever's setting the prices, but the market will mean they tend towards the exchange value.
 
 
 
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