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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Prices come from whoever's setting the prices, but the market will mean they tend towards the exchange value.
    Who sets the price? Or to be more specific what sets the exchange value.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Who sets the price? Or to be more specific what sets the exchange value.
    Exchange value is what the prices tend towards. It changes as socially necessary labour time changes.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Exchange value is what the prices tend towards. It changes as socially necessary labour time changes.
    Exchange value = price

    And all prices come from 'socially necessary lobour time' or the amount of work that went into it?
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Exchange value = price

    And all prices come from 'socially necessary lobour time' or the amount of work that went into it?
    Well, in short, SNLT is the average amount of labour needed to produce said exchanged commodity. The principle is that if suddenly, TVs could be produced in half the time everywhere, and nothing else changed, the price of TVs would, in the long run, drop by half.
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    True capitalist. Not a fake capitalist like these noobs. I want to work on the rules of supply and demand not stupid socially just laws.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Well, in short, SNLT is the average amount of labour needed to produce said exchanged commodity. The principle is that if suddenly, TVs could be produced in half the time everywhere, and nothing else changed, the price of TVs would, in the long run, drop by half.
    Price is a function of labour time then.

     P = f(l)


    If this is true. Then where does the price paid to workers (wages) come from?
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Price is a function of labour time then.

     P = f(l)


    If this is true. Then where does the price paid to workers (wages) come from?
    The sale of commodities.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The sale of commodities.
    Where does the 'value' of labour come from. If 'value' comes from labour.

    Can you see the problem...
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    (Original post by nadiah)
    I'm certainly not a capitalist, not at all, but I'm not sure I'm a socialist either, although I certainly swing that way!
    I don't really like to label myself anyway. I just say I'm left wing and leave it at that.

    & OP, I know many socialists who are not 'peasants' and who are very nice, well educated, non idiotic people
    Ah that is my view exactly. I think a more regulated market is best. Think a light weight socialist system....
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Where does the 'value' of labour come from. If 'value' comes from labour.

    Can you see the problem...
    Wages pay for labour-power, not labour. The difference is important.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Wages pay for labour-power, not labour. The difference is important.
    What is 'labour-power' compared to 'labour'?

    I am sorry about this series of questions but this is the only way to hammer it out.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    What is 'labour-power' compared to 'labour'?

    I am sorry about this series of questions but this is the only way to hammer it out.
    Labour power is that the workers can/do continue to turn up and work. Labour is the time (time has a lot of fluctuation here) they actually spend producing, and the amount of effort invested in the commodities produced.
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    Capitalist.
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    socialism.... it isn't enough...lets go communist but better the philosophy isn't there yet and humans probably aren't either but lets give it a go...

    ahh capitalism... nasty nasty
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    (Original post by Tahooper)
    Socialists do not care if the poor are poorer, so long as the rich aren't richer.
    Not really.

    The concept of 'poor' and 'rich' just wouldn't exist in a socialist state.

    Think of it in this simple way. Ten people are on an island, trapped, have to work to survive etc.

    A socialist 'plan' would be for the ten people to set the amount of resources need and allocate work to each person in a fair way and then distribute the resources fairly. Everyone lives, reasonably comfortably.

    A capitalist 'plan' would be one guy telling nine guys to go work as hard as they possibly can so that he can keep a majority of the resources and then distribute the rest to the other people just enough so that they can survive, maybe giving a select few enough to have a comfortable life so that there's no uprising.

    Which one makes more sense? People need to stop viewing socialism as Soviet 'communism' part 2 or even as some kind of working class uprising. It's just a logical system in which everyone can live a comfortable lifestyle.
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    Capitalist.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Labour power is that the workers can/do continue to turn up and work. Labour is the time (time has a lot of fluctuation here) they actually spend producing, and the amount of effort invested in the commodities produced.
    Labour power is the amount of output per unit of time?

    Labour time is the actual amount of time worker?
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Labour power is the amount of output per unit of time?
    No, sorry, I explained it badly. The number of workers is probably a better explanation.

    Labour time is the actual amount of time worker?
    Labour time is the amount of time spent in production of a commodity, yes.

    I admit what gets annoying in explaining the theory is that Marx had an obsession with saying things represent other things and suchlike. For example, I find it easier to just say that exchange-value is value, but in Capital Marx actually says it's the representation of value.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    No, sorry, I explained it badly. The number of workers is probably a better explanation.
    Labour power is the number of workers?

    Labour is the amount of time worked?

    Doesn't the second definition encompass the first.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Labour power is the number of workers?

    Labour is the amount of time worked?

    Doesn't the second definition encompass the first.
    Depends which way you view it, I guess, but labour is generally more to do with per individual commodity.

    Suppose you have factory o
 
 
 
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