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    I know you've probably all heard the same question before on whether its a benefit to have a degree to become an airline pilot even though its not necessary and with jobs being scarce and hard to get how it helps to have everything you can, but how much of a benefit will it give you?

    With the costs of PPL and ATPL training as well is it worth all the extra money?

    Thanks, Mike
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    I have a friend whose going down the route to becoming an airline pilot, but he's not going to University.

    He's been in the Air Cadets since he was about 14, flying a plane every single weekend without fail, and has been accepted into Oxford Aviation Academy to the tune of £80,000, and after passing 3 or 4 rather long and difficult tests just before his A2 exams.. Talk about added pressure.. After that he's been given some sort of provisional acceptance into Ryan Air if he passes the Academy, and possibly after he's logged enough air time he can progress to trans-atlantic flights and the big bucks.

    I'm sure there are pilots out there who have gone the degree route, but by the sounds of it, it's a lot longer and harder to do, as you're up against people who have done similar to my friend. Then again I don't know what you're doing right now, and I only have limited knowledge of all this :awesome:
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    80k for training sheeeeet.

    how much do pilots get paid for commercial transatlantic flights?
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    (Original post by Andiio)
    accepted into Oxford Aviation Academy to the tune of £80,000, :
    WOW, how did he raise £80,000 and how old is he ??
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    You mean a plane driver?
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    The airline industry is looking very gloomy at the moment and anyone who is training now needs to think again. I am being deadly serious here, without going into details, you do realise that low hour pilots have no chance of finding employment when the market is flooded with experienced pilots who have been layed off? And don't start about Ryanair, they have a very shrude business plan involving employing contractors on external contracts.

    I don't mean to come across a ****, but I have the same aspirations as you and I have spoken to current pilots (we know 3) and all of them have said it's imperative to have a back-up on the blower for the next 4/5 years before cracking on with training. To me that means going to university and getting some sort of interim graduate job before starting on the path to commercial aviation, hopefully when things are on the up again.

    PM me if you like, it's always nice to talk to fellow aviators.
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    A better route than degree I think would be going into ATC first.

    I know a lot of controllers, and lots of them have used it to save for funding for a PPL then ATPL, and apparently airlines look very favourably on this because it shows both an interest in aviation, and that you already have a great deal of knowledge for the job.

    They also apparently like the fact that you will be able to see it from both an ATC point of view and a pilots point.
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    (Original post by neillya1)
    A better route than degree I think would be going into ATC first.

    I know a lot of controllers, and lots of them have used it to save for funding for a PPL then ATPL, and apparently airlines look very favourably on this because it shows both an interest in aviation, and that you already have a great deal of knowledge for the job.

    They also apparently like the fact that you will be able to see it from both an ATC point of view and a pilots point.
    This is well and good until you consider the two main routes into ATC: sponsored cadetships by ATC providers, and self-funding the requisite courses yourself (like an ATPL).

    In the case of the former, using NATS as an example provider, you're having about £700,000 worth of training invested in you, and it can take several years just to get the point of validation. Additionally, the money up to the point of validation really isn't that great; £10k pa followed by £16-18k pa, which realistically is barely enough money to live on, never mind fund an ATPL. Even when you validate, it will still take a long time and will make a sizeable dent in your earnings to fund an ATPL yourself, and I doubt NATS (or whatever company you were working for) would be best pleased at investing nearly a million pounds in your training only for you to bugger off after a couple of years of reckonable service.

    In the case of the latter, to give yourself a realistic chance of getting a job, you'd want to be funding ADI, APP and APS ratings, which all in would cost you around £40-50,000 - not far off the amount you'd be shelling out for an ATPL anyway, and you'd have absolutely no guarantee of getting an ATC job at the end of it anyway. So it would be almost like paying double - add to this the same issues of living costs etc. on a low initial income, and it's not a very realistic prospect.
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    How long do you reckon until it become more normal again and new pilots have a reasonable chance of getting employed?
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    How on earth does someone raise 80k


    No bank will loan that amount.
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    (Original post by WithFlyingColours)
    The airline industry is looking very gloomy at the moment and anyone who is training now needs to think again. I am being deadly serious here, without going into details, you do realise that low hour pilots have no chance of finding employment when the market is flooded with experienced pilots who have been layed off? And don't start about Ryanair, they have a very shrude business plan involving employing contractors on external contracts.

    I don't mean to come across a ****, but I have the same aspirations as you and I have spoken to current pilots (we know 3) and all of them have said it's imperative to have a back-up on the blower for the next 4/5 years before cracking on with training. To me that means going to university and getting some sort of interim graduate job before starting on the path to commercial aviation, hopefully when things are on the up again.

    PM me if you like, it's always nice to talk to fellow aviators.
    I 100% agree with this. Wanted to do flight training at oxford aviation myself but then later decided it was better to get a degree first, and then start working on the training if things pick up in the future.

    Can I ask, what degree are you doing or planning to do at university?
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    (Original post by ElegantElephant™)
    I 100% agree with this. Wanted to do flight training at oxford aviation myself but then later decided it was better to get a degree first, and then start working on the training if things pick up in the future.

    Can I ask, what degree are you doing or planning to do at university?
    I'm going to be applying for engineering courses, hopefully with a general first year as I have no idea what field I'd like most. You'd have thought aeronautical, but I've spoken to more than one person who's done it having been interested in planes and flying and who have disliked it. Obviously it's best to make your own mind up, but I reckon from a potential employment point of view a more general field like mechanical would be better. Also, why have a backup for being a pilot in the very same industry!

    My choice of engineering has nothing to do with the perceived 'maths and physics to be a pilot' thing, it's solely because I'm one of those who is interested in how things work and I enjoy maths and physics at A level. A numerate degree isn't a bad thing to have I suppose should you lose your medical or your job sometime along the line.

    What about you?
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    I know 2 people who went into the Royal Air Force and now fly all over the world with commercial airlines...

    If I ever wanted to fly a plane it'd be in the military tbh.
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    (Original post by WithFlyingColours)
    I'm going to be applying for engineering courses, hopefully with a general first year as I have no idea what field I'd like most. You'd have thought aeronautical, but I've spoken to more than one person who's done it having been interested in planes and flying and who have disliked it. Obviously it's best to make your own mind up, but I reckon from a potential employment point of view a more general field like mechanical would be better. Also, why have a backup for being a pilot in the very same industry!

    My choice of engineering has nothing to do with the perceived 'maths and physics to be a pilot' thing, it's solely because I'm one of those who is interested in how things work and I enjoy maths and physics at A level. A numerate degree isn't a bad thing to have I suppose should you lose your medical or your job sometime along the line.

    What about you?
    I'm applying for engineering myself but I'm keeping it aircraft/aerospace orientated as I don't really have an interest in other aspects of engineering such as mechanical or automotive engineering.

    Your comment about having a backup for being a pilot in the same industry is however very thought provoking, and something I will take into consideration, but it's also somewhat of a headache to decide on as I've only ever been interested in flight lol
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    (Original post by Cardozo)
    I know 2 people who went into the Royal Air Force and now fly all over the world with commercial airlines...

    If I ever wanted to fly a plane it'd be in the military tbh.
    Not everyone would be willing to go through the military route tbh, including me. It has too many other elements chucked in. Joined the ATC for a few months, absolutely hated it, not for me
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    (Original post by mike2niner4)
    How long do you reckon until it become more normal again and new pilots have a reasonable chance of getting employed?

    How long's a piece of string?



    Seriously, it's an impossible question to ask. It might never get back to the level it was; it could turn around within 2years. Nobody knows for certain.


    If you go directly into pilot training after A2s then you might be sat around unemployed for years.

    If you go do a degree first you've got something to fall back on in the meantime.

    Really, you're the only one who can make such a decision.


    (Original post by Rizzletastic)
    How on earth does someone raise 80k


    No bank will loan that amount.
    It's a bit of a complicated situation. In most cases the bank is loaning the amount to the company training you with the provision that they get x% of your earnings until it's been paid off. The company training you also gets paid a certain amount of money by the airlines who'll then recruit you when you finish training.

    It is therefore in the training company's best interests to pick the absolute best candidates so the competition is extraordinarily high.
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    (Original post by ElegantElephant™)
    Not everyone would be willing to go through the military route tbh, including me. It has too many other elements chucked in. Joined the ATC for a few months, absolutely hated it, not for me
    That's true, but pointing out a possible route to the OP.

    Wouldn't mind the experience tbh.

    I used to want to be in the red arrows which is a 3 year thing through being the best of the best in the military.
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    (Original post by ElegantElephant™)
    I'm applying for engineering myself but I'm keeping it aircraft/aerospace orientated as I don't really have an interest in other aspects of engineering such as mechanical or automotive engineering.

    Your comment about having a backup for being a pilot in the same industry is however very thought provoking, and something I will take into consideration, but it's also somewhat of a headache to decide on as I've only ever been interested in flight lol
    Fair play, it's best to stick to your interests and if you have none other than aerospace, then why not do aerospace. With any engineering degree, you could go into the world of finance, so all isn't lost. It's better to enjoy what you do than do a course for job prospects. Me personally, without a shadow of a doubt aerospace is my main interest, though I think with mechanical I could still do some aircraft related topics.
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    (Original post by WithFlyingColours)
    Fair play, it's best to stick to your interests and if you have none other than aerospace, then why not do aerospace. With any engineering degree, you could go into the world of finance, so all isn't lost. It's better to enjoy what you do than do a course for job prospects. Me personally, without a shadow of a doubt aerospace is my main interest, though I think with mechanical I could still do some aircraft related topics.
    Mechanical is probably the better option actually :top: Regarding the people who you said didn't taking a liking to the aeronautical course, can I ask why they didn't like it?
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    (Original post by ElegantElephant™)
    Mechanical is probably the better option actually :top: Regarding the people who you said didn't taking a liking to the aeronautical course, can I ask why they didn't like it?
    One found it too difficult and dropped out after the first year, he's now a captain at BA on 777s, so this was quite some time ago! I don't know his academic background so it's hard to take much from that as difficulty is subjective. The other is also a pilot, he said not to assume that because I love flying and aviation that I'd like an engineering degree in it. He also said he felt he was worked harder than other engineering students doing other disciplines and commented on the maths being very tough - again, subjective and I'm sure the maths in most disciplines is there or there abouts. Overall, based on what people have said to me I feel it would be best to perhaps keep it as broad as possible and decide having studied engineering for a year or two what to specialise in.

    Don't let me put you off, because maybe you'd really like aerospace, it's just nice to hear as many opinions as possible to make up your own mind.
 
 
 
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