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Should foreign students be taking more university places? watch

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    I don't mind them taking university places.

    What I do mind is when they hang around in large groups, intimidate me and are not willing to speak or make friends with anyone outside their national/religious circle.
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    Foreign students tend not to integrate in my opinion but keep much to themselves. So there is little social and cultural benefits. As seems inevitable that grant funding to universities will fall, then UK students should take precedence over foreign students for the dwindling places available. Otherwise the best career prospects the displaced UK school leaver could aspire to would be as a shoeshine boy. Not a happy prospect then!
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    Foreign students tend not to integrate in my opinion but keep much to themselves. So there is little social and cultural benefits.
    Hmm, I know what you mean, but I still think you''re being a little unfair here. It's true that some foreign students do keep to themselves, but a) it's not all of them - quite a few foreign students actually do mix with home students as well as with students from other nationalities b) of those who almost exclusively mix with people from their own home a lot actually regret not having UK friends. (At least according to that yearly poll thingie for international students - I forget what it's called). So perhaps it isn't always entirely their fault that they don't "integrate" as well as you might wish them to...
    As seems inevitable that grant funding to universities will fall, then UK students should take precedence over foreign students for the dwindling places available.
    "Dwindling places"? Since when?
    Otherwise the best career prospects the displaced UK school leaver could aspire to would be as a shoeshine boy. Not a happy prospect then!
    :rolleyes:
    You know, people might take your arguments a bit more seriously if you didn't resort to ridiculous statements like that.
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    Foreign students tend not to integrate in my opinion but keep much to themselves. So there is little social and cultural benefits. As seems inevitable that grant funding to universities will fall, then UK students should take precedence over foreign students for the dwindling places available. Otherwise the best career prospects the displaced UK school leaver could aspire to would be as a shoeshine boy. Not a happy prospect then!
    But then British universities would fall further and further down international rankings, not only bad within the world of academia itself, but also of course bad for British graduates competing in an increasingly international market. It would also increase the number of top students going to study abroad in the Ivy League and at other institutions.
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    The government is contemplating cuts to university funding by 20%, which will probably mean that universities will allocate more places to foreign students to balance their budgets squeezing out deserving home students. In theory all places could be allocated to paying foreign students as I believe there are no quota restrictions. It could be that in 10 to 15 years time the majority of UK university students could be foreign. This will have bad and unintended consequences for the UK economy as the indigenous population become less educated and more reliant on foreign expertise. So what do you think is the solution?:confused:
    If our Universities became significantly more foreign that would only be a result of immigration and a diversifying population, which is no bad thing at all. The picture you paint is highly improbable.
    Universities are heavily dependent on the fees they charge internationals, and personally I'm glad that rich elites from elsewhere are taking the flak rather than us. Increased intake of internationals would make Universities richer and more able to provide for the needs of their students, including increasing the bursaries they offer students from low income families. For instance the University of Cambridge takes a high number of international students, but we also offer the richest bursary scheme for low income students of any in the country, and have one of the best higher education access programme in the country.

    (Original post by Jamjar)
    Foreign students tend not to integrate in my opinion but keep much to themselves.
    That's a massive generalisation. At my University they integrate to a large extent and make the environment wonderfully cosmopolitan as a result. I'm glad to be here simply because of the chance to mingle with people from such different backgrounds! Of the internationals who tend to keep to themselves, I've only seen this trend with Asians, and not all of them by any means. They're only one source of the hordes of internationals we get, so can't be taken as representative.
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    If our Universities became significantly more foreign that would only be a result of immigration and a diversifying population, which is no bad thing at all. The picture you paint is highly improbable.
    Universities are heavily dependent on the fees they charge internationals, and personally I'm glad that rich elites from elsewhere are taking the flak rather than us. Increased intake of internationals would make Universities richer and more able to provide for the needs of their students, including increasing the bursaries they offer students from low income families. For instance the University of Cambridge takes a high number of international students, but we also offer the richest bursary scheme for low income students of any in the country, and have one of the best higher education access programme in the country.

    That's a massive generalisation. At my University they integrate to a large extent and make the environment wonderfully cosmopolitan as a result. I'm glad to be here simply because of the chance to mingle with people from such different backgrounds! Of the internationals who tend to keep to themselves, I've only seen this trend with Asians, and not all of them by any means. They're only one source of the hordes of internationals we get, so can't be taken as representative.
    On the contrary the scenario that I paint is highly probable and indeed the significantly high numbers of foreign students at your university, Cambridge, underlines my point. As government support diminishes then the so called elite universities will increase their intake of fee paying non-EU foreign students, likely to be Chinese and southeast Asians to make up the shortfall in income thus displacing the deserving home student.:eek: The only foreign student allowed should be on the exchange programme.
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    On the contrary the scenario that I paint is highly probable and indeed the significantly high numbers of foreign students at your university, Cambridge, underlines my point. As government support diminishes then the so called elite universities will increase their intake of fee paying non-EU foreign students, likely to be Chinese and southeast Asians to make up the shortfall in income thus displacing the deserving home student.:eek: The only foreign student allowed should be on the exchange programme.

    Are you a racist perchance?
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    On the contrary the scenario that I paint is highly probable and indeed the significantly high numbers of foreign students at your university, Cambridge, underlines my point. As government support diminishes then the so called elite universities will increase their intake of fee paying non-EU foreign students, likely to be Chinese and southeast Asians to make up the shortfall in income thus displacing the deserving home student.:eek: The only foreign student allowed should be on the exchange programme.
    I totally disagree. As I said, our access campaign is fantastic and they couldn't possibly do anything more to open opportunities to able students in the country.
    I'm very wary of threads with anti foreigner sentiment at their base. These days people are way too keen to come up with reasons to justify their irrational dislike of foreigners, which is a much graver ill on a grand scale than an influx of foreigners. Its not like outsiders haven't been flooding this island for centuries.
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    So long as there's a cap on the amount of international students accepted. Sometimes I think it's unfair about so many international students being accepted (they pay more for their fees don't they?)...like, my college tutor told us all we wouldn't get accepted for the more prestigious art colleges in London because so many international students go there, paying more fees etc etc. So that's the only reason I have an issue with it.
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    (Original post by statics)
    Are you a racist perchance?
    Is the sky blue? :p:
    (Original post by lostdoll)
    my college tutor told us all we wouldn't get accepted for the more prestigious art colleges in London because so many international students go there, paying more fees etc etc. So that's the only reason I have an issue with it.
    Sounds like your tutor nurses a bit of a bias there too. I would take that suggestion with a tablespoon of salt because its obviously far too simplistic to be The Reason.
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    Is the sky blue? :p:
    Does the Pope **** in the woods? :ninja:
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    Well according to unistat the percentage of overseas students (i.e. foreign) is 22%, and here is the link: http://www.unistats.com/studentBrkdo...91226101200056. I think this figure is likely to increase if there is a reduction in government financial support. The so called elite universities will become the exclusive preserve of the fee paying foreign student much to the detriment of the educational wellbeing of the home student.
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    (Original post by statics)
    Are you a racist perchance?
    Are you a sensitive foreigner?
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    Well according to unistat the percentage of overseas students (i.e. foreign) is 22%, and here is the link: http://www.unistats.com/studentBrkdo...91226101200056. I think this figure is likely to increase if there is a reduction in government financial support. The so called elite universities will become the exclusive preserve of the fee paying foreign student much to the detriment of the educational wellbeing of the home student.
    Wrong. According to the unistats link you just posted, the overall percentage of overseas students at one particular university of your choosing (Cambridge) is 22%, and most of those students are postgrads. According to the university's own website the percentage of successful international applicants (i.e. overseas and EU) applying for undergraduate degrees - i.e. the ones which actually matter if you're talking about changes in government funding for degrees - is only around 10%. Postgraduates are completely irrelevant to your argument, so there's no reason to include them here.
    Please stop trying to twist statistics in order to make it look as though universities were teeming with nasty foreigners. They're not.
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    Wrong. According to the unistats link you just posted, the overall percentage of overseas students at one particular university of your choosing (Cambridge) is 22%, and most of those students are postgrads. According to the university's own website the percentage of successful international applicants (i.e. overseas and EU) applying for undergraduate degrees - i.e. the ones which actually matter if you're talking about changes in government funding for degrees - is only around 10%. Postgraduates are completely irrelevant to your argument, so there's no reason to include them here.
    Please stop trying to twist statistics in order to make it look as though universities were teeming with nasty foreigners. They're not.
    I won't hobnob with any nasty foreigners. There is nothing in my statement that is contradictory. It is you who mention postgraduate students, and whilst it it might be the case that the current intake is 10% foreign, this percentage will increase if government funding is reduced. This surely can't be allowed?:eek:
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    I won't hobnob with any nasty foreigners.
    E for effort. I think that was what you might describe as a "wit fail"...:rolleyes:
    There is nothing in my statement that is contradictory.
    I didn't say it was contradictory, I said it was wrong. As in (deliberately?) misleading, because what you said didn't tally with the statistics you actually posted. If you want to use statistics from unistats, please use the correct ones, otherwise you may as well not bother using statistics at all.
    It is you who mention postgraduate students,
    Yes, because they shouldn't have been included in your argument. If you're talking about government funding for undergraduate degrees, the percentage of overseas students enrolled in postgraduate degrees is completely irrelevant. And considering your posts so far, I can't help suspecting that the only reason why you quoted a combined percentage was to hike up the figures a bit and make it look as though there were more foreigners "taking" university places than there actually are. I'd appreciate it if you could stop using dirty little tricks like that.
    and whilst it it might be the case that the current intake is 10% foreign, this percentage will increase if government funding is reduced.
    Since nothing has actually happened yet apart from a political scare-story, it's a bit too early to subscribe to your horror scenario of that figure suddenly jumping to 100% and Cambridge becoming "the exclusive preserve of the fee paying foreign student" (by which you presumably mean students paying fees at the overseas rate; apparently you've also chosen to lump them together with EU students - who are no more financially lucrative than home students - in order to increase the figures you're quoting).
    Anyway, going back to your "exclusive preserve" claim, that's clearly ludicrous. Cambridge is also a badly-chosen example to use here, because it's a university which a) is considerably wealthier than most and b) has an academic reputation to lose, so they can afford to be picky and it's very much in their own interests to admit only foreigners who are actually up to scratch - and there's a limited supply of those. If there is any real danger of universities being tempted/forced to admit overseas students regardless of their actual suitability, purely because they're worth more money, the universities most likely to be affected will be poor universities which can't afford to be as academically selective (and which probably receive a lower calibre of overseas applicants in the first place because the most capable ones usually aim for the big names, as they're the only ones which are known internationally).

    Come to think of it, I don't know why I'm even bothering. It's not like you actually want a sensible argument, you're clearly just interested in spouting your xenophobic nonsense. You've done nothing else so far.
 
 
 
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