Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

British vs. English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish watch

  • View Poll Results: Which one?
    British
    78
    39.20%
    English
    53
    26.63%
    Scottish
    26
    13.07%
    Welsh
    15
    7.54%
    Irish
    13
    6.53%
    None
    14
    7.04%

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Lol. You're not getting it at all.

    Money has almost zero value. It is paper, it is metal strips, it is ink. If you attempted to sell a 100 quid note based on the value of its physical attributes, you would get far less than £1. Paper bills only have value that we place on it. Paper bills are representations of value. If only some people in the UK agreed to pretend that a £100 note was about equivalent in value to, say, an iPod, whilst others didn't, then the whole system of exchange and consumerism in the country would break down. The exchange system in this countries relies that ALL people in the country pretend that paper money is actually worth whatever is printed on the bill.

    The same goes for borders. There is absolutely NO physical border which separates my country from yours. Borders do not exist in the real world, they are imaginary lines that exist on maps, and they are supposed to represent a differentiation between one 'nation' and another. The shape of a border and the shape of the land it encloses has absolutely no effect on the people who live inside, except perhaps environmental ones, but not cultural.

    If you truly believe that borders mark a difference between distinct subsets of people, you are extremely ignorant indeed.

    If you honestly believe that, then you must also believe that the town of Berwick is split down the middle by two completely different cultures and attitudes. Ridiculous.

    The border of Scotland could easily extend further into Northern England, or retreat further North, giving the lowlands to the 'English'. But this would matter not a jot. The culture of the people would not change as the border swept past them.
    Lol so you think borders have no affect on the people living either side? When I was travelling in Scandinavia recently I walked from Norway into Finland. People on the Norwegian side of the border spoke Norwegian and no Finnish, when I walked a mile south into Finland, everyone talked Finnish and nobody talked Norwegian. I know because I asked them if they were bilingual. Other than that the cultural differences weren't to great, because Norway and Finland are both countries which have developed within the same sphere of western civilisation. However I contrast this with the Norwegian/Russian and Finnish/Russian border... on the Scandinavian side people live affluently, with plenty of money to spend on leisure activities that will expand their minds and horizons. On the other side in Russia, people live in very much worse living conditions. They do not have as much money as the Scandanavians. Furthermore they do not have the same education as the Scandanavians. Russian education is different. Very few Russians will have visited Scandinavia. In fact also, when I talked to Finnish people living just an hour from Norway they told me they had visited Norway only once. Just look at a picture of Murmansk in Russia.. about 2 hours from the Norwegian border, and compare it to any Norwegian city. They look completely different, they are completely different cities, populated by very different people. Yes the Scottish border doesn't have a great affect on the type of people you will encounter on either side, but that is because we are all from Britain and have shared a cultural and historical background from at least the middle ages, due to the influence of the catholic church, and the spread of English as a vernacular language in the Scottish lowlands during the later middle ages amongst other things. Some borders don't have any affect on the people either side. Some have dramatic affects, just look at the Korean border. Enjoy your empirical evidence.

    And as for your comments on currency... well why don't you think about why people DON'T say an iPOD is equivalent to a £100 note. That is because our society has advanced beyond the level of relying on a bartering system. We all make implicit commitments when we participate in society, it is how we collectively advance as a civilisation.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by youes25)
    Lol so you think borders have no affect on the people living either side?
    Not as distinctly as the borders themselves. If you ask me, there's a bigger fundamental culture difference between people living in Glasgow and people living in Edinburgh than there is between people living in Glasgow and people living in Yorkshire. Yet there is no border between the first two, and there's quite a large border between the 2nd two.

    When I was travelling in Scandinavia recently I walked from Norway into Finland. People on the Norwegian side of the border spoke Norwegian and no Finnish, when I walked a mile south into Finland, everyone talked Finnish and nobody talked Norwegian. I know because I asked them if they were bilingual.
    Norwegian and Finnish are mutually intelligible for a start...

    Other than that the cultural differences weren't to great, because Norway and Finland are both countries which have developed within the same sphere of western civilisation. However I contrast this with the Norwegian/Russian and Finnish/Russian border... on the Scandinavian side people live affluently, with plenty of money to spend on leisure activities that will expand their minds and horizons. On the other side in Russia, people live in very much worse living conditions. They do not have as much money as the Scandanavians. Furthermore they do not have the same education as the Scandanavians. Russian education is different. Very few Russians will have visited Scandinavia. In fact also, when I talked to Finnish people living just an hour from Norway they told me they had visited Norway only once. Just look at a picture of Murmansk in Russia.. about 2 hours from the Norwegian border, and compare it to any Norwegian city. They look completely different, they are completely different cities, populated by very different people. Yes the Scottish border doesn't have a great affect on the type of people you will encounter on either side, but that is because we are all from Britain and have shared a cultural and historical background from at least the middle ages, due to the influence of the catholic church, and the spread of English as a vernacular language in the Scottish lowlands during the later middle ages amongst other things. Some borders don't have any affect on the people either side. Some have dramatic affects, just look at the Korean border. Enjoy your empirical evidence.
    I think you'll find that the thread was ABOUT the British borders, hence my reply was ABOUT the British borders, and as a person born within and living within the British borders, I really don't see why the rest of your post is relevant.

    And as for your comments on currency... well why don't you think about why people DON'T say an iPOD is equivalent to a £100 note. That is because our society has advanced beyond the level of relying on a bartering system. We all make implicit commitments when we participate in society, it is how we collectively advance as a civilisation.
    But an iPod is equivalent to around £100 in value. What I was comparing was the actual value of paper money versus the representative value we pretend it has in order to get a system of trade going.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Not as distinctly as the borders themselves. If you ask me, there's a bigger fundamental culture difference between people living in Glasgow and people living in Edinburgh than there is between people living in Glasgow and people living in Yorkshire. Yet there is no border between the first two, and there's quite a large border between the 2nd two.



    Norwegian and Finnish are mutually intelligible for a start...



    I think you'll find that the thread was ABOUT the British borders, hence my reply was ABOUT the British borders, and as a person born within and living within the British borders, I really don't see why the rest of your post is relevant.



    But an iPod is equivalent to around £100 in value. What I was comparing was the actual value of paper money versus the representative value we pretend it has in order to get a system of trade going.
    Yes of course borders in Britain aren't that significant, and thats because the 4 countries haven't developed in isolation from one another. This doesn't mean that borders in other places have as little importance as the British ones do.

    And its Norwegian and SWEDISH not Norwegian and Finnish that are mutually intelligible.... Finnish has nothing in common with Norwegian whatsoever. Its from a completely different language group.

    And yes the thread was about British borders, but at no point did you imply that your argument wasn't about borders as a whole until now.

    Ye that's how we get a system of trade going... so?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by youes25)
    Yes of course borders in Britain aren't that significant, and thats because the 4 countries haven't developed in isolation from one another. This doesn't mean that borders in other places have as little importance as the British ones do.

    And its Norwegian and SWEDISH not Norwegian and Finnish that are mutually intelligible.... Finnish has nothing in common with Norwegian whatsoever. Its from a completely different language group.

    And yes the thread was about British borders, but at no point did you imply that your argument wasn't about borders as a whole until now.

    Ye that's how we get a system of trade going... so?
    Apologies for my error about the Scandinavian languages, my memory seems to have failed me. But my philosophical ponderings over borders has not.

    I didn't think I had to make the distinction between British borders and all other borders because the context and title of the thread already did that for me. I think it's safe for you to assume that I wasn't talking about Japanese, Austrian, Russian or Scandinavian borders.

    The question in the thread asked me whether I preferred to call myself Scottish or British. Since I do not care one jot which borders I consider myself to be enclosed by, that is what my answer intended to reflect. Even if the border between Scotland and England did have a considerable impact on the cultures that lay beyond them, I still wouldn't care. I really wouldn't. I'm not saying that the effects of that border wouldn't be present in my personality, I'm just saying I wouldn't be inherently 'proud' of one nationalistic label over another, simply because it applies to me. Had the borders been erected elsewhere, the culture would have extended or retreated appropriately, but it really wouldn't make a difference to me. The borders are imaginary, erected by people, and the only reason culture would differ across a border is because people have accepted the imaginary borders as real dividing lines of groups in people - physically and literally they are NOT. And any difference that you see between two countries is PURELY a result of people agreeing to pretend that the divide is significant, hence making it significant. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

    "These borders will divide two great cultures". Yes, they will, because you've just decided to make it so.

    And lastly, I wasn't making any particular point about money or the trading system. Somebody on here refuted my point that borders were imaginary, and only exist in people's minds - it is a man-made distinction with no physical meaning. Money is the same, and that's why I used it to reinforce my point that just because something is agreed, by people, to have a certain characteristic for a certain purpose, does not mean it actually has that characteristic on its own. Money does not have value without the human application of representative value, and borders do not divide groups of people without the human decision to make that so.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    You do realise that borders have separated peoples. Many borders stem from geographical borders.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: July 22, 2009
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.