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    Hmm ?

    Do we get a freshers pack or something telling us when to come in and what's going down ? Any info is nice.
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    You go to ur flatmates house and all play 'Who can code xyz program the fastest'
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    (Original post by Mos Def)
    You go to ur flatmates house and all play 'Who can code xyz program the fastest'
    I know that was meant to be a joke, but I actually think that would be quite amazing, assuming we could somehow include alcohol in the whole game
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    (Original post by Emc2)
    I know that was meant to be a joke, but I actually think that would be quite amazing, assuming we could somehow include alcohol in the whole game
    Last person to crack RSA pays for the next round...
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    One word of advice: if you're an civil or mechanical engineer, don't bother with the bridge building and go out for possibly the last week of fun before your hard work begins.
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    (Original post by sir.jamesgreen)
    Last person to crack RSA pays for the next round...
    Twofish maybe? Or Rijndael.. Would be far more exciting (/challenging/impossible )
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    Soggy Biscuit!!!
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    (Original post by mituozo)
    Twofish maybe? Or Rijndael.. Would be far more exciting (/challenging/impossible )
    We might as well try and prove P = NP while we're at it

    (Although as computer scientists I think we can all agree that it's quite obviously P ≠ NP. Right?)
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    Yeah but what about.. when it is? Does freshers start on the same date as the term start date or is it a week before ? Where do we get information from ?
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    (Original post by Emc2)
    (Although as computer scientists I think we can all agree that it's quite obviously P ≠ NP. Right?)
    Obviously? Were it obvious then a proof would exist showing it... As it stands a formal proof either way will net you a nice little Million Dollars... Papers on the subject put forward good, but imperfect arguments for either side.

    Why should it be 'obvious' that P != NP?
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    (Original post by sir.jamesgreen)
    Obviously? Were it obvious then a proof would exist showing it... As it stands a formal proof either way will net you a nice little Million Dollars... Papers on the subject put forward good, but imperfect arguments for either side.

    Why should it be 'obvious' that P != NP?
    I know, sorry, very poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was that I believe our everyday experience as computer scientists (or computer scientists in the making I suppose) points toward P != NP. I probably would not in a million years be able to produce a formal proof of it, but empirical evidence makes a very strong case for it in my view. I'm sure there are plenty of computer scientists who still lean towards P = NP, but the majority of us seems to be on "my" side of the argument:

    (Original post by Wikipedia)
    According to a poll, many computer scientists believe that P ≠ NP. A key reason for this belief is that after decades of studying these problems, no one has been able to find a polynomial-time algorithm for any of more than 3000 important known NP-complete problems. These algorithms were sought long before the concept of NP-completeness was even known (Karp's 21 NP-complete problems, among the first found, were all well-known existing problems at the time they were shown to be NP-complete). Furthermore, the result P = NP would imply many other startling results that are currently believed to be false, such as NP = co-NP and P = PH.
    (From Wikipedia)

    As I said, it was quite silly of me to say that one of the most important unsolved questions in the history of mathematics was "obvious", because it quite clearly isn't. However, I hope I still managed to get my point across and explain what I meant by that.
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    It's called 101 Week where I'm going :awesome:
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    (Original post by Emc2)
    I know, sorry, very poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was that I believe our everyday experience as computer scientists (or computer scientists in the making I suppose) points toward P != NP. I probably would not in a million years be able to produce a formal proof of it, but empirical evidence makes a very strong case for it in my view. I'm sure there are plenty of computer scientists who still lean towards P = NP, but the majority of us seems to be on "my" side of the argument:

    (From Wikipedia)

    As I said, it was quite silly of me to say that one of the most important unsolved questions in the history of mathematics was "obvious", because it quite clearly isn't. However, I hope I still managed to get my point across and explain what I meant by that.
    Agh! Uncited wikipedia link! While what the article may be correct and many people may believe that P != NP the poll it talks about has no citation at all. It could well have been a poll of three people the author, who could well be a 14 year old boy who read one article on complexity theory, knows.

    And as we've seen before with mathematical theorums the fact that people consider them unsolvable has no bearing on the final result (Fermat much?) In fact, applying a similair argument as some of those against P = NP (If a solution exists we'd probably have found it by now) to Fermat's would prove that it were 'obvious' that there is no solution.

    There are other arguments such as "It would change our understanding of the world philosophically, and would affect computational theory as we know it". How anyone can use this as an argument astounds me. The idea that the assumption is probably right because its damn convenient for it to be right doesn't seem a strong argument. If what we know about computational theory is based on an assumption, that is no reason to not go about disproving that assumption.

    Is this an argument for P=NP, not really. It is, however, an argument against going into a subject you've not really studied yet with a heavy prejudice to one side or the other. And a much bigger argument against quoting wikipedia articles for anything more complicated than the cast of a TV show!
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    Stop spamming for gods sake. P = NP if N is 1 or P is 0. There, now back to my question.
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    (Original post by spex)
    Hmm ?

    Do we get a freshers pack or something telling us when to come in and what's going down ? Any info is nice.

    Right, most people move in on the saturday (which I think is the 3rd this year?), and then freshers week is the following week. When you go to your halls to pick up your keys, you also get an introduction pack, with things to fill in for the health centre, a generic timetable of union-run events and the odd condom or two...see, Imperial cares...

    You will get another timetable from your department during freshers week, as you may have extra safety courses you need to go through before you can go into labs, etc.
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    (Original post by Cyco)
    Right, most people move in on the saturday (which I think is the 3rd this year?), and then freshers week is the following week. When you go to your halls to pick up your keys, you also get an introduction pack, with things to fill in for the health centre, a generic timetable of union-run events and the odd condom or two...see, Imperial cares...

    You will get another timetable from your department during freshers week, as you may have extra safety courses you need to go through before you can go into labs, etc.
    :woo:

    What if you're not living in a hall :woo:
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    (Original post by spex)
    Stop spamming for gods sake. P = NP if N is 1 or P is 0. There, now back to my question.
    You asked what Fresher's week was like... Give it enough time sitting in the pub with a few people from your course and invariably a discussion like that happens... Then you all drink, get depressed at how much Imperial has eaten your mind already and go home to cry, or, if you are in computing start looking at your first lab exercise for the term.

    Then you glance casually at the Fresher's welcome back, see the condoms, laugh about how they would be being used by now at any other university in Britain and go back to reading XKCD...
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    Thanks. Just to be sure, there are no lectures on freshers week then ? I got into warwick as well and then they slapped me with the fact that they do have lectures in the first week.

    What else tends to happen in freshers anyway ? What kind of things does the uni do to help people socialise more ? And what does everyone do in the daytime ?
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    (Original post by spex)
    Thanks. Just to be sure, there are no lectures on freshers week then ? I got into warwick as well and then they slapped me with the fact that they do have lectures in the first week.

    What else tends to happen in freshers anyway ? What kind of things does the uni do to help people socialise more ? And what does everyone do in the daytime ?

    There is a very low chance of there being any official lectures during freshers week, but it's up to the department.
    During freshers week, there's lots of hall-run events so people get to see more of london whilst the work-load is low. There are pub crawls, again hall-run, and there are events at the union, every evening.

    During the day, you can do whatever you want really. There should be some departmental studd, but that may only take a few hours out of the week. You can explore, go to Ethos (the gym) stay in the union, etc. We do hold a freshers fair so everyone can come around and see/join our 320+ clubs, but other than that, there's not much you have to do.
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    (Original post by sir.jamesgreen)
    Agh! Uncited wikipedia link! While what the article may be correct and many people may believe that P != NP the poll it talks about has no citation at all. It could well have been a poll of three people the author, who could well be a 14 year old boy who read one article on complexity theory, knows.

    And as we've seen before with mathematical theorums the fact that people consider them unsolvable has no bearing on the final result (Fermat much?) In fact, applying a similair argument as some of those against P = NP (If a solution exists we'd probably have found it by now) to Fermat's would prove that it were 'obvious' that there is no solution.

    There are other arguments such as "It would change our understanding of the world philosophically, and would affect computational theory as we know it". How anyone can use this as an argument astounds me. The idea that the assumption is probably right because its damn convenient for it to be right doesn't seem a strong argument. If what we know about computational theory is based on an assumption, that is no reason to not go about disproving that assumption.

    Is this an argument for P=NP, not really. It is, however, an argument against going into a subject you've not really studied yet with a heavy prejudice to one side or the other. And a much bigger argument against quoting wikipedia articles for anything more complicated than the cast of a TV show!
    I know it doesn't really make my argument any stronger, but the quotation is not uncited (I would never even dream of quoting it if it was), this is the pool they mentioned. With a sample size of 100, it's hardly the most significant study on the subject, but it sort of reinforces my point that the majority of computer scientists in the world believe that P!=NP (see section 2.2 in the aforementioned paper). Mind you, this is not an argument for P!=NP, it's merely an argument for the fact that most computer scientists believe that P!=NP.

    You do raise a good point about Fermat's last theorem, and I know computational theory doesn't work on assumptions or intuitions, but to be honest I still like to think that we're never going to be able to factorise in polynomial time, or even find a polynomial-time algorithm for the travelling salesman problem, or any of the thousands of other NP-complete problems (not all of them, anyway). I think it all comes down to a matter of personal opinion really, you choose to be "agnostic" whereas I am more of an "atheist" when it comes to believing P=NP.

    P.S. And yes, I agree that the philosophical argument is absolute rubbish.
 
 
 
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