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    I am just tired of seeing and hearing about people blaming china for the environment and the countless criticsms of the government. so i am here to give a different picture and attempt to meend the bad image of China.

    I will start with the environment.

    A majority of China's greenhouse gas emition comes from making consumer products from the west and that is a fact. even some of the big chinese companies have CEOs who are non-chinese. Majority of the products are never sold in China. Xbox 360 and PS3 are not sold in China, although they are made in China.
    Some people would say, why don't the government just stop taking the orders, the reason is there are 1.3 billion people in china and they all need to be fed, money don't grow on trees, those orders sustain China's economy. even if you gave everyone a pound, that would be 1.3 billion pound in total not a small amount, you might get the jist of the problem. China's inflation rate after the credit crunch is growing at about 6-8% to most people this would be a sign of recovery or even improvement but for china anything below 10% is considered a deflation as any drop in flation would mean job losses for the poor which number in the hundreds of million.

    Now the government.

    China has a communist goverment and many are calling for a multi-party goverment e.g. UK. It sounds good but it will never work as most staple wealthy countries have had a parrallel government for at least 100-400 years, China never had that system, up to 1900s China had a supreme emperor who ruled absolutely until the collapse of the monarchy. suddenly, the people had the power, not only too many people but too many hot headed and uneducated people (warlords), Fighting between counties and districts exploded, early forms of the government were the government becasue they had the most guns, until the communist party rose to victory in the 1940s, President Mao ruled absolutely, similar to Stalin, unlike stalin he started off as a good person a man with a vision and with progressively more power he became dilluded.
    His failed plans caused famine and population boom. But the people or more specifically peasants loved him. Till this day, it is dangerous to speak badly of him in China.

    That was back then when China was only born, Modern day China has moved towards westernisation but people fail to see it, privatisation of non-essetial business, trading with the west, Olympics all moves to show westeners how open China can be, people must remember some of the older leaders of China have known Mao personally and are extremists and want China to turn back while others want to westenise. People still compare the modern Chineses goverment with the Mao government, time have passed and things have changed but some people don't see it.

    Taiwan has a two party system but when they meet to discuss things they fight, literally, 60 year olds, fight unarmed. China is not ready for a multi-party system, but is moving in that direction, you have to give it time.

    Last note on corruption.
    The president Hu won't be corrupt becasue he has not reason to, he doesn't need a income so much as he gets everything paid for and same with the other high ranking officials, the people who are corrupt are the mayor or governers, they don't earn so much, they don't get the benefits, they do all the hard work and they want to live a better life for what they do and they have the power to do it so they go against the system so in China any officials found corrupt with 1ooo Yuan or £100 is given death sentence but they still do it. you replace them, someone else do it, what can you do, is a big country, 1.3 billion people is a fact you can't change, you can only make do with what you have.

    If you have read all this good on you, if you haven't is fine.
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    (Original post by DR_X)
    I am just tired of seeing and hearing about people blaming china for the environment and the countless criticsms of the government. so i am here to give a different picture and attempt to meend the bad image of China.
    Trust me, a one-sided nationalist defence of the country, without acknowledging the vast majority of criticisms against China are entirely valid, is going to do your case no favours. Indeed, on TSR we have been inundated with people doing just that, and frankly it leaves me with a far worse picture of China than I had before.
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    I quite admire china actually, it has a very mild and agreeable foreign policy for its position. Of course there are points which need to be improved, but for a developing nation it does very well for itself and the people.

    I wouldnt call it a communist government anymore though, it seems to have a capitalist culture and policy, which has resulted in its incredible growth!
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    The one thing that I love about China is that it has the ability to stand up to the USA and I totally agree with your assessment of your government and its need to be there as it is. In fact, I think it is the model country. Edit: Or at least more 'model-like' than the others out there.

    However, are you sure that you have 13 billion people as population? I am quite sure it is more like 1.3bn.
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    Since I don't care much about the environment, I'll go on to two of the other points you have raise:

    (Original post by DR_X)
    Now the government.

    China has a communist goverment and many are calling for a multi-party goverment e.g. UK. It sounds good but it will never work as most staple wealthy countries have had a parrallel government for at least 100-400 years, China never had that system, up to 1900s China had a supreme emperor who ruled absolutely until the collapse of the monarchy. suddenly, the people had the power, not only too many people but too many hot headed and uneducated people (warlords), Fighting between counties and districts exploded, early forms of the government were the government becasue they had the most guns, until the communist party rose to victory in the 1940s, President Mao ruled absolutely, similar to Stalin, unlike stalin he started off as a good person a man with a vision and with progressively more power he became dilluded.
    His failed plans caused famine and population boom. But the people or more specifically peasants loved him. Till this day, it is dangerous to speak badly of him in China.

    That was back then when China was only born, Modern day China has moved towards westernisation but people fail to see it, privatisation of non-essetial business, trading with the west, Olympics all moves to show westeners how open China can be, people must remember some of the older leaders of China have known Mao personally and are extremists and want China to turn back while others want to westenise. People still compare the modern Chineses goverment with the Mao government, time have passed and things have changed but some people don't see it.

    Taiwan has a two party system but when they meet to discuss things they fight, literally, 60 year olds, fight unarmed. China is not ready for a multi-party system, but is moving in that direction, you have to give it time.
    I actually agree with some elements of what you are saying, but ultimately capitalism and so forth can be entrenched within a system without denying democracy - by creating a strong constitution, for example, and balancing the democratic power as we do in the UK with, for example, the House of Lords and the Crown. There are other ways to go about that.

    The Chinese legislature isn't very powerful as things are. Would it really be so disastrous to open it up to other parties? Because the way it seems to outsiders is that this is a way of not only stabilising the state, but suppressing all dissent.

    The most important thing that people criticise the Chinese government for, that you haven't addressed, are its human rights abuses. Even if you are not going to be a multi-party democracy, denying people freedom of speech and the freedom to disseminate ideas is quite simply not on. That the Chinese state censors the internet, for example, is nothing short of madness. Denying freedom of religious practice and observance is sickening. The practice of forced abortions is inhuman.

    The president Hu won't be corrupt becasue he has not reason to, he doesn't need a income so much as he gets everything paid for and same with the other high ranking officials
    If only it was that simple. Ambitious people rarely think 'I have enough' - plenty of very wealthy people have been corrupt or involved in breaking the law for their own ends. In many cases, it isn't about money, but about power.

    in China any officials found corrupt with 1ooo Yuan or £100 is given death sentence but they still do it.
    :eek:

    Death sentence for £100? Blimey.
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    (Original post by DR_X)
    I am just tired of seeing and hearing about people blaming china for the environment and the countless criticsms of the government. so i am here to give a different picture and attempt to meend the bad image of China.

    I will start with the environment.

    A majority of China's greenhouse gas emition comes from making consumer products from the west and that is a fact. even some of the big chinese companies have CEOs who are non-chinese. Majority of the products are never sold in China. Xbox 360 and PS3 are not sold in China, although they are made in China.
    Some people would say, why don't the government just stop taking the orders, the reason is there are 13 billion people in china and they all need to be fed, money don't grow on trees, those orders sustain China's economy. even if you gave everyone a pound, that would be 13billion pound in total not a small amount, you might get the jist of the problem. China's inflation rate after the credit crunch is growing at about 6-8% to most people this would be a sign of recovery or even improvement but for china anything below 10% is considered a deflation as any drop in flation would mean job losses for the poor which number in the hundreds of million.

    Now the government.

    China has a communist goverment and many are calling for a multi-party goverment e.g. UK. It sounds good but it will never work as most staple wealthy countries have had a parrallel government for at least 100-400 years, China never had that system, up to 1900s China had a supreme emperor who ruled absolutely until the collapse of the monarchy. suddenly, the people had the power, not only too many people but too many hot headed and uneducated people (warlords), Fighting between counties and districts exploded, early forms of the government were the government becasue they had the most guns, until the communist party rose to victory in the 1940s, President Mao ruled absolutely, similar to Stalin, unlike stalin he started off as a good person a man with a vision and with progressively more power he became dilluded.
    His failed plans caused famine and population boom. But the people or more specifically peasants loved him. Till this day, it is dangerous to speak badly of him in China.

    That was back then when China was only born, Modern day China has moved towards westernisation but people fail to see it, privatisation of non-essetial business, trading with the west, Olympics all moves to show westeners how open China can be, people must remember some of the older leaders of China have known Mao personally and are extremists and want China to turn back while others want to westenise. People still compare the modern Chineses goverment with the Mao government, time have passed and things have changed but some people don't see it.

    Taiwan has a two party system but when they meet to discuss things they fight, literally, 60 year olds, fight unarmed. China is not ready for a multi-party system, but is moving in that direction, you have to give it time.

    Last note on corruption.
    The president Hu won't be corrupt becasue he has not reason to, he doesn't need a income so much as he gets everything paid for and same with the other high ranking officials, the people who are corrupt are the mayor or governers, they don't earn so much, they don't get the benefits, they do all the hard work and they want to live a better life for what they do and they have the power to do it so they go against the system so in China any officials found corrupt with 1ooo Yuan or £100 is given death sentence but they still do it. you replace them, someone else do it, what can you do, is a big country, 13 billion people is a fact you can't change, you can only make do with what you have.

    If you have read all this good on you, if you haven't is fine.
    Repeatedly quoting China's population as 13 billion and then basing a good deal of your argument on it doesn't help your credibility.
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    (Original post by DAFOne)
    The one thing that I love about China is that it has the ability to stand up to the USA and I totally agree with your assessment of your government and its need to be there as it is. In fact, I think it is the model country. Edit: Or at least more 'model-like' than the others out there.

    However, are you sure that you have 13 billion people as population? I am quite sure it is more like 1.3bn.
    Remarkable the lengths some people will go to :rofl:
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    Aside from "as any drop in flation would mean job losses for the poor which number in the hundreds of million. " this which isn't necessarily true at all I think that's a good post.
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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    Remarkable the lengths some people will go to :rofl:
    Do you doubt the truth of that statement or do you not understand the reasoning behind my appreciation?
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    (Original post by DAFOne)
    Do you doubt the truth of that statement or do you not understand the reasoning behind my appreciation?
    The latter.

    But now that you mention it, I doubt they really stand up, perhaps to a certain extent.
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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    The latter.

    But now that you mention it, I doubt they really stand up, perhaps to a certain extent.
    Well, yes - to a certain extent.

    As for my appreciation: I believe that the American's nickname for me would be 'Commie' - just the way I think...
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    (Original post by DAFOne)
    The one thing that I love about China is that it has the ability to stand up to the USA and I totally agree with your assessment of your government and its need to be there as it is. In fact, I think it is the model country. Edit: Or at least more 'model-like' than the others out there.

    However, are you sure that you have 13 billion people as population? I am quite sure it is more like 1.3bn.
    you are right soz, in china you count in ten thousands, the closest chinese equivalent to 1.3 billion is 13 YI.....
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Since I don't care much about the environment, I'll go on to two of the other points you have raise:



    I actually agree with some elements of what you are saying, but ultimately capitalism and so forth can be entrenched within a system without denying democracy - by creating a strong constitution, for example, and balancing the democratic power as we do in the UK with, for example, the House of Lords and the Crown. There are other ways to go about that.

    The Chinese legislature isn't very powerful as things are. Would it really be so disastrous to open it up to other parties? Because the way it seems to outsiders is that this is a way of not only stabilising the state, but suppressing all dissent.

    The most important thing that people criticise the Chinese government for, that you haven't addressed, are its human rights abuses. Even if you are not going to be a multi-party democracy, denying people freedom of speech and the freedom to disseminate ideas is quite simply not on. That the Chinese state censors the internet, for example, is nothing short of madness. Denying freedom of religious practice and observance is sickening. The practice of forced abortions is inhuman.



    If only it was that simple. Ambitious people rarely think 'I have enough' - plenty of very wealthy people have been corrupt or involved in breaking the law for their own ends. In many cases, it isn't about money, but about power.



    :eek:

    Death sentence for £100? Blimey.
    13 billion is my fault is 1.3.

    I will try to answer your point about sensoring, China is a big country and alot of people are under paid and living in not so pleasant places, it would not take very much to talk them into rioting, could you imagine the scale of the problem if some hot-head talked revolution into the heads of the peasants or poor paid miners and factory workers. about the forced abortion, I know is inhuman but what can you do there were something like 0.5 to 1 billion people in china before the one child policy and if that wasn't introduced the population could have doubled very quickly or tripled causing a wider problem, trying to tell people not to have kids is virtually impossible you would need a orator with the combined apeech ability of Julius Caeser, Hitler, and Martin Luther King.

    Your second point about corruption, Premier Hu is in the spotlight to much to do anything, China's equivalent of MPs number in the four thousands, if he does anything stupid, he would be removed and replaced.
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    (Original post by Student2806)
    Repeatedly quoting China's population as 13 billion and then basing a good deal of your argument on it doesn't help your credibility.
    I know but 1.3 billion is also quite alot....
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Trust me, a one-sided nationalist defence of the country, without acknowledging the vast majority of criticisms against China are entirely valid, is going to do your case no favours. Indeed, on TSR we have been inundated with people doing just that, and frankly it leaves me with a far worse picture of China than I had before.
    I was trying to justify China doing what it has done and the side effects are all too well known and it would have made the thread even longer. I have tried to justify most of them but I am only human.....
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    (Original post by DR_X)
    I am just tired of seeing and hearing about people blaming china for the environment and the countless criticsms of the government. so i am here to give a different picture and attempt to meend the bad image of China.

    I will start with the environment.

    A majority of China's greenhouse gas emition comes from making consumer products from the west and that is a fact. even some of the big chinese companies have CEOs who are non-chinese. Majority of the products are never sold in China. Xbox 360 and PS3 are not sold in China, although they are made in China.
    Some people would say, why don't the government just stop taking the orders, the reason is there are 1.3 billion people in china and they all need to be fed, money don't grow on trees, those orders sustain China's economy. even if you gave everyone a pound, that would be 1.3 billion pound in total not a small amount, you might get the jist of the problem. China's inflation rate after the credit crunch is growing at about 6-8% to most people this would be a sign of recovery or even improvement but for china anything below 10% is considered a deflation as any drop in flation would mean job losses for the poor which number in the hundreds of million.

    Now the government.

    China has a communist goverment and many are calling for a multi-party goverment e.g. UK. It sounds good but it will never work as most staple wealthy countries have had a parrallel government for at least 100-400 years, China never had that system, up to 1900s China had a supreme emperor who ruled absolutely until the collapse of the monarchy. suddenly, the people had the power, not only too many people but too many hot headed and uneducated people (warlords), Fighting between counties and districts exploded, early forms of the government were the government becasue they had the most guns, until the communist party rose to victory in the 1940s, President Mao ruled absolutely, similar to Stalin, unlike stalin he started off as a good person a man with a vision and with progressively more power he became dilluded.
    His failed plans caused famine and population boom. But the people or more specifically peasants loved him. Till this day, it is dangerous to speak badly of him in China.

    That was back then when China was only born, Modern day China has moved towards westernisation but people fail to see it, privatisation of non-essetial business, trading with the west, Olympics all moves to show westeners how open China can be, people must remember some of the older leaders of China have known Mao personally and are extremists and want China to turn back while others want to westenise. People still compare the modern Chineses goverment with the Mao government, time have passed and things have changed but some people don't see it.

    Taiwan has a two party system but when they meet to discuss things they fight, literally, 60 year olds, fight unarmed. China is not ready for a multi-party system, but is moving in that direction, you have to give it time.

    Last note on corruption.
    The president Hu won't be corrupt becasue he has not reason to, he doesn't need a income so much as he gets everything paid for and same with the other high ranking officials, the people who are corrupt are the mayor or governers, they don't earn so much, they don't get the benefits, they do all the hard work and they want to live a better life for what they do and they have the power to do it so they go against the system so in China any officials found corrupt with 1ooo Yuan or £100 is given death sentence but they still do it. you replace them, someone else do it, what can you do, is a big country, 1.3 billion people is a fact you can't change, you can only make do with what you have.

    If you have read all this good on you, if you haven't is fine.
    agreed. China is like what the USSR failed to evolve into.
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    Actually,i think communism is best for China now.Everything in China is just go go go,that is why they are so efficient-because they are afraid of the government.You take a look at India,large population-democratic but it is extremely poor,has corruption and is surrounded by slums.I do agree that one day China should have democracy,but for now,the current government is doing a relatively good job.Give it a couple of more decades and you will see a superpower.

    Also i don't see why the U.S. is complaining about the environment,China has 4 times as much people than the US,is manufacturing intensive and yet it is still produces only slightly more co2 emissions.U.S. on the other hand...
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    (Original post by Ruvermillion)
    Actually,i think communism is best for China now.Everything in China is just go go go,that is why they are so efficient-because they are afraid of the government.You take a look at India,large population-democratic but it is extremely poor,has corruption and is surrounded by slums.I do agree that one day China should have democracy,but for now,the current government is doing a relatively good job.Give it a couple of more decades and you will see a superpower.

    Also i don't see why the U.S. is complaining about the environment,China has 4 times as much people than the US,is manufacturing intensive and yet it is still produces only slightly more co2 emissions.U.S. on the other hand...
    It already is a superpower...
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    I really do hate people who keep criticizing China tbh. China's government is one of the best in the world. The only reason the western people criticize it is because they feel threatened at how China has advanced so much and they don't like the idea of a non-white country who is so culturally distant to them to be the future superpower.
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    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    Some of the criticisms of China are perfectly valid, however you must remember that now is pretty much the most free China has ever been in its millenia of history. A lot of progress was made in the last 30 or so years.

    "The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones."
    - Confucius
    Are you Chinese by any chance?
 
 
 
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