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    (Original post by truckstopblues)
    that's not always true , some people work very hard but aren't capable of getting into these top uni's because they simply aren't intelligent enough .

    .
    Intelligence will also probably be a factor in an employers assessment. So, thus far we have hard work + brains - both of which could arguably be gleaned from the institution where a candidate gained his or her degree (as well as other factors such as the quality of the degree, A levels or whatever). But you cannot deny it is important, even if it just serves to show the candidate's intelligence or level of commitment.
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    Prestige isnt everything, of course not, you can get a good job going to a less prestigious university if you have great experience, interview well etc

    However, lets face it, people always want to go somewhere prestigious as a sense of personal pride, same as people owning expensive and prestigious cars and watches. If someone cares about prestige then dont jump down their throat. This whole "there is no hierachy" malarky is rubbish as people always judge institutions out in the real world cos we have 130+ and people try to decipher which are the "Good" ones. The number of threads on prestige here proves it
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    (Original post by truckstopblues)
    that's not always true , some people work very hard but aren't capable of getting into these top uni's because they simply aren't intelligent enough .
    Or maybe they want to go to a lower ranked university? Only on TSR would this be inconceivable. :rolleyes:
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    it depends really, if the university is ranked highly for you're subject than that may make a difference in employment opportunities, and if its an accretided university with accredited courses

    it may be ranked highly in general but may not be great for you're subject so in a way i do agree with the OP in some respects
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    Prestigious implies elite and this means the university will attract the best candidates with the highest UCAS points and best A-level results. Such institutions will produce the best graduates with the most superior degree classification. They generally obtain the most research funding and have the best teacher-student ratio. It is more than likely that employers will prefer a graduate from these institutions. Indeed I would say that a graduate from Oxford with a 2.2 would be chosen over a graduate with a first from say Brighton. I say a first class honours from a low ranking university is not regarded as equivalent to a first class honours from a top ranking university if comparing the same degree discipline.
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    you guys are scaring me now (i'm 16), i know i won't go to like cambridge or LSE, and i want to do law, does this mean i won't get a job cos i didn't go oxbridge or LSE :|
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    (Original post by Jamjar)
    I say a first class honours from a low ranking university is not regarded as equivalent to a first class honours from a top ranking university if comparing the same degree discipline.
    Agreed. And it would be a little naive to believe otherwise...
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    (Original post by 0404343m)
    Correct. On TSR university rankings is another way kids try to prove they're somehow 'better' than their peers, as if such a hierarchy exists. Of course certain places have better links with certain industries than others, and the quality of education some institutions are renowned for might arguably better prepare their graduates for various things, but its not the case that theres some sliding scale based on university name.

    Entry requirements are a product of popularity, and little else. You might feel (and be entitled to) that going to a specific university will give you a head start over others when it comes to the crunch in later life- but all the evidence available shows it doesn't follow the league table trends, and at the best of times, is only partially useful at gaining you an interview. If you don't want to be kicked back out of the door you've found has been opened for you, it comes down to much more than that.

    It's like talking to a brick wall trying to tell TSR that though.
    This especially. Aberdeen for example, has entry requirements of CCC for most arts courses. This is very low, but purely due to the location of Aberdeen putting people off (although to be honest the location of Aberdeen is to me one of the major attractions of it!), it's still a good uni. Therefore Aberdeen suffers in league tables because the low entry standards brings it down.

    Choosing a uni based purely on prestige is silly - consider it by all means but it shouldn't be the major concern. I'm choosing my unis at the moment and I'm primarily looking at location really, as I know from experience how important it is to be in a place you like. I'm also looking at factors like architecture, opportunities outside the course itself and things specific to certain unis/groups e.g. length of course, ability to take outside subjects and collegiate systems, things like that. Those sort of things, but especially location are more important than exact rankings
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    (Original post by 1721)
    you find everyone who says prestige is important go to a russel group, people who say prestige isnt normally dont go to a prestious uni.
    seriously you cant say prestige isnt important unless you go to a really good uni or it sounds like sour grapes
    I've always said it isn't important, or at least as important as people think- what's my motive for it then?

    Since we've yet to actually get a proper definition of 'prestige' in a university context, then I suggest we all stop trying to class which universities fall into this category and which don't. Do we go on age of institution? Famous alumni? Entry requirement published? Average UCAS score? Financial turnover? Average rank, made up of arbitrary figures in a newspaper? How many students at the top of their school class who now attend there? In short, no one can agree- nor can they agree what the top 10/20/30 etc universities are. Prestige is only important on TSR as its full of children who don't know any better and are determined to show off intellectual prowess by way of a few As and a copy of the Times.

    Anyone that says employers look at this to equate how hard students must have worked to get there, is wrong. Makes sense in logic, but its not backed up with any evidence. Employers realise that teenagers being teenagers, some don't get their head in the game until later than others- some even hit their peak at 17. They therefore, on the whole, look at much more than university name, and pick the candidate best fitted to the opening they want to fill. If you think someone at 14th in a newspaper table is going to be more employable than someone at 51st purely because of the name on their degree, you're deluded.
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    I agree to an extent, but I don't think that everything below Oxbridge is basically "whatever". I don't think I have any delusions of grandeur about my university, but there is a reason why I applied to Manchester rather than Man Met. Then again, I've never applied for a graduate-level job.
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    (Original post by JW92)
    Mostly true, but you should consider professions like Law where university prestige is painfully important.
    This.
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    (Original post by d123)
    This especially. Aberdeen for example, has entry requirements of CCC for most arts courses. This is very low, but purely due to the location of Aberdeen putting people off (although to be honest the location of Aberdeen is to me one of the major attractions of it!), it's still a good uni. Therefore Aberdeen suffers in league tables because the low entry standards brings it down.

    Choosing a uni based purely on prestige is silly - consider it by all means but it shouldn't be the major concern. I'm choosing my unis at the moment and I'm primarily looking at location really, as I know from experience how important it is to be in a place you like. I'm also looking at factors like architecture, opportunities outside the course itself and things specific to certain unis/groups e.g. length of course, ability to take outside subjects and collegiate systems, things like that. Those sort of things, but especially location are more important than exact rankings
    Tosh, St Andrews is in the middle of nowhere and bloody hard to get too for the scores of English students who go there every year, but it still has a very high entry tariff, same with Edinburgh.
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    (Original post by Degausser)
    Law doesn't have an external body that requires a high standard in order to acredit the course. Medicine has the GMC for that, which requires a very high standard for all universities that teach it.
    oh yeah
    its obvious
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    (Original post by serrellen)
    Problem is, where you study is usually a good indication of how hard you work. You work hard at A levels, you go to a great uni. You don't work, you go to a 'less prestigious' uni. Employers might (and I'm not saying they don't take the degree into question too) infer from where you studied for your degree that you are a hard worker, or not.
    I agree with this. I think on the whole it would be fair to say that the average student at Durham, for example, is more intelligent and hard working than the average student at, say, Bolton. It's a fairly extreme example, but anyone who thinks that a History graduate from Durham and a History graduate from Bolton are going to have the same desirability and employment prospects is seriously deluding themself. Surely that's not what you're saying, OP?

    Oh, and that's without even mentioning law. It's practically impossible to get a job with a good law firm these days without a highly prestigious university on your CV.
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    (Original post by d123)
    This especially. Aberdeen for example, has entry requirements of CCC for most arts courses. This is very low, but purely due to the location of Aberdeen putting people off (although to be honest the location of Aberdeen is to me one of the major attractions of it!), it's still a good uni. Therefore Aberdeen suffers in league tables because the low entry standards brings it down.

    Choosing a uni based purely on prestige is silly - consider it by all means but it shouldn't be the major concern. I'm choosing my unis at the moment and I'm primarily looking at location really, as I know from experience how important it is to be in a place you like. I'm also looking at factors like architecture, opportunities outside the course itself and things specific to certain unis/groups e.g. length of course, ability to take outside subjects and collegiate systems, things like that. Those sort of things, but especially location are more important than exact rankings
    If you look back through my posts on here, no one has argued the supply/demand line for entry requirements more than I, and no one has bemoaned Aberdeen being overlooked so often as frequently as I. Because it has no ties with the Russell/1994 group, and asks for low grades, it doesn't feature on many radars- the Scottish ancients aren't well understood on here either, for most Scots (who aren't in a school that offers many/any Advanced Highers) they're perceived to be the best there is. There isn't a huge amount between Aerdeen and St Andrews historically, except now St Andrews gets nearly 20,000 applications for 1500 places, and Aberdeen around the same for 3500 places. If the roles were reversed, you'd find the entry doing the same thing- it doesn't affect the quality of education, but students applying with lower grades wreaks havoc with league tables. They asked for similar grades in the mid-90s, after all.
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    (Original post by Dingy)
    Tosh, St Andrews is in the middle of nowhere and bloody hard to get too for the scores of English students who go there every year, but it still has a very high entry tariff, same with Edinburgh.
    Yes, but Aberdeen is a lot further north. It also doesn't have the 'royal' connection, or the small town-ness that attracts some people to St Andrews.
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    (Original post by 0404343m)
    I've always said it isn't important, or at least as important as people think- what's my motive for it then?

    Since we've yet to actually get a proper definition of 'prestige' in a university context, then I suggest we all stop trying to class which universities fall into this category and which don't. Do we go on age of institution? Famous alumni? Entry requirement published? Average UCAS score? Financial turnover? Average rank, made up of arbitrary figures in a newspaper? How many students at the top of their school class who now attend there? In short, no one can agree- nor can they agree what the top 10/20/30 etc universities are. Prestige is only important on TSR as its full of children who don't know any better and are determined to show off intellectual prowess by way of a few As and a copy of the Times.

    Anyone that says employers look at this to equate how hard students must have worked to get there, is wrong. Makes sense in logic, but its not backed up with any evidence. Employers realise that teenagers being teenagers, some don't get their head in the game until later than others- some even hit their peak at 17. They therefore, on the whole, look at much more than university name, and pick the candidate best fitted to the opening they want to fill. If you think someone at 14th in a newspaper table is going to be more employable than someone at 51st purely because of the name on their degree, you're deluded.
    i was more making the point that unless you go to a very good uni any thread along the lines of "it doesnt matter what uni you go to" always sounds like sour grapes.
    i agree as much about league tables being stupid and people should go where they want not what the times says.
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    (Original post by Dingy)
    Tosh, St Andrews is in the middle of nowhere and bloody hard to get too for the scores of English students who go there every year, but it still has a very high entry tariff, same with Edinburgh.
    You're wrong, on so, so many levels. St Andrews applications have quadrupled since William went there, and its now perceived to be uber-desireable. St Andrews is also a full two hours closer to England than Aberdeen, and two hours closer to a major international airport (as Aberdeen's serves limited locations).
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    (Original post by Rimipie)
    you guys are scaring me now (i'm 16), i know i won't go to like cambridge or LSE, and i want to do law, does this mean i won't get a job cos i didn't go oxbridge or LSE :|
    No but it does mean you may graduate to a position as a trainee with a local firm on £16,000 a year rather than in London where you can be looking at anything up to £80,000
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    (Original post by Rimipie)
    you guys are scaring me now (i'm 16), i know i won't go to like cambridge or LSE, and i want to do law, does this mean i won't get a job cos i didn't go oxbridge or LSE :|
    There are other excellent universities offering Law besides Oxbridge and LSE, but most law is a natoriously competitive subject and entry requirements are high (usually AAA) so you'll still need very good grades.

    You can practice Law without doing a Law degree however, if any other subject interests you (I plan on doing a languages degree first).
 
 
 
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