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    (Original post by Bishamon)
    Hardly shoddy advice, it was actually the met police who encouraged this a few years ago after seeing the sheer amount of damage done to rape victims who attempted to fight back, it extended far beyond vaginal tears. It would be great if I could fish out the comments but it'll take some time. I am sure those with countless experience of dealing with rapists and their victims, wouldnt be offering "shoddy" advice. My apologies to your friend, however I am sure one will not be concerning herself with the longterm psychological effects of a crime which is happening right before her, however this analysis is largely based upon educated guessing due to my limited knowledge in regards to the matter.

    Yeah, and most of my comments are true, sadly people are too stupid to apply them to their lives. Martial arts are a sport, you do a sport to become better at that sport, not to create a false sense of security which will only eventually come tumbling down.

    As you can tell I have something against people who take up martial arts for self-defence, you're right, I do. I think the aim is idiotic and all the successful practitioners I have seen had goals within the sport itself not outside it, people who wanted to better themselves and their skills, take this to a competetive level and achieve success.
    Did you ever think that maybe there was a political motive in telling people not to defend themselves? Like the way the state prosecutes people who defend themselves from assault by burglars? Just one possibility... governments like to encourage their populations to get used to being passive and domesticated. Either way the psychological wounds take FAR longer to heal than any physical ones. Anyway we'll leave that issue, it's not a pleasant one and we won't solve the existence of evil anytime soon.

    I disagree with your take on MA, I think JuJutsu has real defence applications which is why it was taught to a caste, that spent their lives on battefields, for nearly 400 years. Same with Silat which was used for inter-regional warfare in the malay and indonesian archipelago system for literally a thousand years, they beat off two portugese invasions with no firearms.
    You talk about the power of the human will, well there are few better ways to forge willpower than real training. Try heating up some coconut oil to boilding and rubbing it into your skin... because thats what some of these nutters do! It's part and parcel of real MA training to push yourself... look at what karate used to be like... these guys were completely insane and now look what it has become in some places, just a joke. As I've said, don't judge the old arts based on modern interpretation.

    I don't do a sport, even the muay thai gym I go to teaches the old muay chaiya as well as the boxing. I'm not interested in winning trophies. We spar, we roll, we play... we certainly don't need any audience. How are you judging "success"? I know what i've learnt over the years has made a big difference in my life and in some situations, not sure why you want to generalise so much.

    I don't want to sound antagonistic and I of course appreciate your honesty but I really am going to have to disagree. To each, their own.
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    (Original post by Bishamon)
    The moment, fist lands on face you've shut the door on negotiations. People say it in Peckham, if you take a knife to the brawl, you better use it.
    Well no point debating with somebody who changes his view and outlook on every post Yeah they also say talk is cheap.
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    (Original post by Guvnor)
    Well no point debating with somebody who changes his view and outlook on every post Yeah they also say talk is cheap.
    No, if you have already started to engage in a fight I hardly see how you'll be able to get yourself out of one. You say you done door work, therefore when you trained the SIA would have banged on about the importance of dialogue and that 99.9% of cases could be resolved using it.

    You know what dont take it from me, take your martial arts and go to "hot" venue, you can try KO's along the Old Kent Road in south london, we'll see how long you last.
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    (Original post by Bishamon)
    No, if you have already started to engage in a fight I hardly see how you'll be able to get yourself out of one. You say you done door work, therefore when you trained the SIA would have banged on about the importance of dialogue and that 99.9% of cases could be resolved using it.

    You know what dont take it from me, take your martial arts and go to "hot" venue, you can try KO's along the Old Kent Road in south london, we'll see how long you last.
    :rofl:
    Okay tough guy :rolleyes:

    In a real life situation anything can happen so my point is just to be prepared for the worst, thats all. Yeah when you get booted in the face by 5/6 guys when your on the floor try talking yourself out of it. You will do very well as you have the gift of the gaff right.
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    (Original post by tsunamarama)
    If you read Andy Mcnab's books he talks about how hand to hand fighting is not elaborate, you do what will get you out of the situation as quickly as possible; not staying and fighting.
    Be aware that McNab vastly alters the actual course of events in an effort to sell more books and make more money - do not take what he says as gospel.

    (Original post by Bishamon)
    Even in cases of rapes, ones safest bet is to not fight back and endure the attack, in most cases when one attempts to they only risk doing themselves further harm.
    From what I've heard it's the opposite. Those that fight back, especially with a weapon of some sort, are less likely to be injured, raped or killed. It's an argument used by the pro gun lobby.
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    (Original post by cousto)
    in your opinion what is the best martial art and why
    As ever, depends what you mean by 'best'. In terms of most effective, I would argue that that comes down to training methodology: in short, aliveness.

    The styles which best exemplify that are BJJ, muay thai, boxing, kyokushin, judo, SAMBO and wrestling, which are why those are the styles I tend to recommend.

    MMA is technically a rule set rather than a style in its own right, although a reputable gym that turns out successful MMA fighters will also necessarily train with aliveness, and therefore tends to be a good option (not to mention often quite cheap: on the few occasions I've trained at an MMA club, it never cost me more than a fiver).

    (Original post by h0ple55)
    Don't do a martial art if you just want to learn how to 'defend yourself' or 'stand up for yourself in a bar' as you're rarely going to be attacked in any way fairly in anyway expecting it. The last fight I saw went Him: push, Other guy: punch. End. The person who hits first always wins unless you're a pussy, so 'learning' to fight isn't much use.
    While it is true that most martial arts do not cover psychological, environmental, legal etc issues, one which trains with aliveness will nevertheless provide a useful delivery system. They also, very importantly, teach you how to deal with somebody fully resisting your technique (e.g., in BJJ, muay thai, judo etc, full contact sparring is an important part of class).

    Training to deal with the worst case scenario (somebody who knows what what they're doing) makes a lot more sense than hoping for the best (some drunken idiot who can barely stand up).


    (Original post by tsunamarama)
    where's your proof that special forces use martial arts? [...]

    Yes Israel use krav maga but it most militaries don't use martial arts. They use they're own styles of defence designed for the battlefield, not for fighting on the street or in a dojo
    Easy to find an example: the US Army trains in BJJ (it is the basis of the Modern Army Combatives program). Also, take a look at this thread on 'battlefield' martial arts.

    (Original post by john87)
    a good way of telling if a school is legit is if they have a fight team or not, if they don't and claim it is "against their policy" or some other BS then I'd steer clear of them
    Yep, I'd agree.

    First of all, I'd recommend you take a look at the FAQ (if that's broken, use this link) on finding a good martial arts school. In general, signs to look for are a competitive record, regular heavy contact sparring and 'aliveness' (if you're unfamiliar with the term, Matt Thornton has a long article on the topic describing what it is and why it's important: he is the man most associated with popularising the concept. One of his students also has a good piece on aliveness).

    If your interest is mainly in striking, the safest option if you want decent training is muay thai (which you'll also see as 'thai boxing'), along with martial arts like boxing and kyokushin karate. That's not to say there aren't good schools within other striking styles, but they tend to vary widely in quality.

    If you're more interested in grappling, then BJJ would be an excellent choice, as the strong competitive element and ability-based ranking system generally results in high quality training. A cheaper option is judo, which is also much easier to find - the two styles are closely related, the main difference being that judo normally focuses on throws whereas BJJ is mostly about the ground. For more on judo, read the Bullshido.com article and FAQ. For BJJ, you could check my BJJ Beginner FAQ. SAMBO is another good choice, but even harder to find than BJJ. Then there's wrestling, which is also great training for grappling.

    Alternately, you could combine grappling and striking by cross-training in several arts, or at an MMA gym (though technically 'MMA' is a ruleset rather than a specific style). Examples of well known MMA gyms would be Team Quest and Miletich Fighting Systems.

    There are also several school databases you could try. For example, for BJJ:

    TrainJiuJitsu.com
    Gym Database (BJJ, MMA etc)
    UK Club Map
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    i already do wing chun and just wanted to hear peoples OPINIONS on what they see as the best martial art.....learned long ago it's about the individual not the art
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    (Original post by slideyfoot)
    Easy to find an example: the US Army trains in BJJ (it is the basis of the Modern Army Combatives program). Also, take a look at this thread on 'battlefield' martial arts.

    [/url]
    Because I'm going to believe a website that's called bullshido (bull :snow::snow::snow::snow:).
    If you look at what's said it's all hearsay and they are similar to the people on here trying to "big up" there own martial arts because they think of themselves as bruce lee or some other invincible fighting god.

    If you think about it logically, militaries wouldn't use fighting styles that are 1000s of years old, nor could you brand the whole army of one country using the same martial art, as they use different weapons. Take for instance the US rangers who use the tomahawk as a cqc weapon, but marines use the combat knife. Why would they use the same fighting styles and why would ancient arts be used when using modern weapons? How would being able to do a karate chop protect you from being shot at?
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    (Original post by Guvnor)
    :rofl:
    Okay tough guy :rolleyes:

    In a real life situation anything can happen so my point is just to be prepared for the worst, thats all. Yeah when you get booted in the face by 5/6 guys when your on the floor try talking yourself out of it. You will do very well as you have the gift of the gaff right.
    Hahaha, but I'm not the one implying my "mad martial artz skillz", god you're full of :snow::snow::snow::snow:. You know what I have never been involved with a situation in which 5/6 guys have tried to take me on simply because when working I always engaged with customers appropriately and fairly and fights with me for others, for the most part, seemed incredibly "long". To be honest I think you're talking outta your ass, I dont think you've really done any door stuff I think you're just talking outta your ass trying to big up your "martial arts" using your "door work" as a pretext. Please cease and desist this stupidity.
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    From what I've heard it's the opposite. Those that fight back, especially with a weapon of some sort, are less likely to be injured, raped or killed. It's an argument used by the pro gun lobby.
    Fighting back with a gun has different results than fighting back with a martial art. That is the argument used by - and indeed the raison d'etre of the - pro gun lobby.
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    Also most soldiers don't really use martial arts, even special forces. If these guys are fighing someone and they don't have a gun or even a knife, they are quite patently "doing it wrong." From what I've heard the stuff they learn is useful when they come home and try to pull someone else's girlfriend, but not really at other times. Second or third hand info of course - I've never done any fightings.
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    (Original post by Bishamon)
    Hahaha, but I'm not the one implying my "mad martial artz skillz", god you're full of :snow::snow::snow::snow:. You know what I have never been involved with a situation in which 5/6 guys have tried to take me on simply because when working I always engaged with customers appropriately and fairly and fights with me for others, for the most part, seemed incredibly "long". To be honest I think you're talking outta your ass, I dont think you've really done any door stuff I think you're just talking outta your ass trying to big up your "martial arts" using your "door work" as a pretext. Please cease and desist this stupidity.
    If you have never been involved in a situation then I think your in the wrong thread mate. I think you need to get out a bit more, I don't think you have ever been involved in any situations as I can tell by the manner you speak, pure gibberish. If you cant take debate then dont debate, I think your the one talking utter crap about your verbal skills working on the street when they clearly dont and you admitted yourself that you have never been involved in any situations yourself. guess you should keep your advice to yourself.

    Plus you didnt answer my question how are your verbal skills going to work when your outnumbered on ther street, like you said yourself in a earlier post on the street you are usually outnumbered, so how effective are your verbal skills when your getting your head kicked in, dont mean nothing if you have worked on the doors, big deal, the streets dont work like that my freind, infact people used to take pleasure in giving bouncers a beating, and I am sure you will meet the criteria for one of those bouncers who gets their head kicked in because they live in a dream world, my advice to you is to get your head out of your arse .

    So far what you have posted has been pure bull :snow::snow::snow::snow: if not prove it, back it up with evidence. I don't agree with you, I am not bigging up martial arts but I speak in favour of them because they gave you skills sitting in the pub having a pint, gaining a belly and playing darts does not give you skills to protect yourself.

    So far you have given no constructive advice to the op as it is you who is talking complete crap,if you cant say anything good and positive then perhaps the best option for you would be to keep quiet, if you do claim certain things then back it up and yeah dont get personal you dont even know me

    I wont bother replying to you, as first you dont know how to talk and secondly your talking pure rubbish, time you got your head out of your arse.

    Good day.
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    (Original post by Guvnor)
    If you have never been involved in a situation then I think your in the wrong thread mate. I think you need to get out a bit more, I don't think you have ever been involved in any situations as I can tell by the manner you speak, pure gibberish. If you cant take debate then dont debate, I think your the one talking utter crap about your verbal skills working on the street when they clearly dont and you admitted yourself that you have never been involved in any situations yourself. guess you should keep your advice to yourself.

    Plus you didnt answer my question how are your verbal skills going to work when your outnumbered on ther street, like you said yourself in a earlier post on the street you are usually outnumbered, so how effective are your verbal skills when your getting your head kicked in, dont mean nothing if you have worked on the doors, big deal, the streets dont work like that my freind, infact people used to take pleasure in giving bouncers a beating, and I am sure you will meet the criteria for one of those bouncers who gets their head kicked in because they live in a dream world, my advice to you is to get your head out of your arse .

    So far what you have posted has been pure bull :snow::snow::snow::snow: if not prove it, back it up with evidence. I don't agree with you, I am not bigging up martial arts but I speak in favour of them because they gave you skills sitting in the pub having a pint, gaining a belly and playing darts does not give you skills to protect yourself.

    So far you have given no constructive advice to the op as it is you who is talking complete crap,if you cant say anything good and positive then perhaps the best option for you would be to keep quiet, if you do claim certain things then back it up and yeah dont get personal you dont even know me

    I wont bother replying to you, as first you dont know how to talk and secondly your talking pure rubbish, time you got your head out of your arse.

    Good day.
    L-O-L

    I find you funny, you show all the maturity of a fifteen year old, still far too engrossed in his saturday morning cartoons and Bruce Lee novels. I have no advice to the OP because he asked a cliche idiotic question.

    (Original post by cousto)
    in your opinion what is the best martial art and why
    What the hell is this? First of all if we are gonna ask this? The only logical answer could be that ne would have to look into the artist rather than the art itself. I wont provide "constructive" advice for a "non-constructive" question. I'll provide you with evidence when you do so first, at most you can pull out 3 or 4 cases where an individual used his martial arts to defend himself, I could also pull out 3 or 4 examples of where individuals "arts" have failed them.

    The fact that you insult my preference for negotiation verifies to me that you have never done door work nor do you have any experience of dealing with numerous drunken and difficult customers. I'll gladly show you my badge, license ID, even where I trained (Green Man Training in Haringey, I could give you a heads up). I can also name you numerous security personnel who have died on the job, 99% of the time it was stupidity on the bouncer's part which killed him. James Oyebola is a name that often springs to mind, 6 foot 9 and a fabulous boxer (a martial art which I enjoy and undertake). What happened? Intimidated a customer, believed his 2.03m reach would save him, what happened? Repeated shots to the face, died instantly. What does it turn out, he was an awful bouncer known to constantly wind up individuals who he didn't like. Piss off the right guy and they will come back for you.

    You have all the makings of an empty vessel. Hypothetical examples of the great many advantages martial arts can do for you in the street. You take that :snow::snow::snow::snow: with you into an altercation, even get a few hits in, and see whether someone doesn't get out a knife and stab you in the :snow::snow::snow::snow::snow::snow::snow: face. We'll see how well you art does in stopping sharp objects. People like you irritate me immensely, I have huge respect for martial artists. Those who seek to further their skills in their chosen sport, however I don't create some idiotic notion that their martial arts will make them street fighting gods. I can count my altercations, mostly in my school days, on my right hand and that is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If you think the street is a place to gain experience then, well, good luck.
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    (Original post by Bishamon)

    I have huge respect for martial artists. Those who seek to further their skills in their chosen sport, however I don't create some idiotic notion that their martial arts will make them street fighting gods. I can count my altercations, mostly in my school days, on my right hand and that is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If you think the street is a place to gain experience then, well, good luck.
    :rofl:
    Your the one pal who has clearly said in your posts that martial arts are useless and all of a sudden you have a huge respect for them.

    No one said here that martial arts make you a street fighting God.

    Your the one who claimed that want to get experience had out on a friday night on the street.

    Your clearly denying what you have posted before.

    I never said that it makes you superman, it teaches you certain skills that MIGHT I repeat THAT MIGHT save your life, thats all.

    It works for some and for some it does not, going around looking for trouble is foolishness and those people do usually end up getting it . Martial artists do not go around looking for trouble infact they have greta respect for each other and only will get involved in something if its vital. But training in a art, or training in the gym or any sport teaches you a lot of things, confidence, discipline, dedication etc.
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    (Original post by Guvnor)
    :rofl:
    Your the one pal who has clearly said in your posts that martial arts are useless and all of a sudden you have a huge respect for them.

    No one said here that martial arts make you a street fighting God.

    Your the one who claimed that want to get experience had out on a friday night on the street.

    Your clearly denying what you have posted before.

    I never said that it makes you superman, it teaches you certain skills that MIGHT I repeat THAT MIGHT save your life, thats all.

    It works for some and for some it does not, going around looking for trouble is foolishness and those people do usually end up getting it . Martial artists do not go around looking for trouble infact they have greta respect for each other and only will get involved in something if its vital. But training in a art, or training in the gym or any sport teaches you a lot of things, confidence, discipline, dedication etc.
    Before we even go into your post, if I even bother. Stop failing at reading comprehension. I have consistently told of my respect for those who choose to advance their skills in their chosen sport, martial arts is no different. Of the respectable practitioners I know, they have always told their students that they should have never turned up if they expected to be taught methods which will somehow render opponents useless if the situation arises, rather to gain the discipline through their sport to ensure situations like that never occur, to keep in control of ones surroundings and never succumb to the temptation of one's own ego.

    When doing my enhanced security training I remember learning that completely regardless of martial art, push an individual into a corner and you will experience a strength and determination from that person which one is unlikely to see another situation. By the way, you still haven't told me where you worked.
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    (Original post by tsunamarama)
    Because I'm going to believe a website that's called bullshido
    I would advise you don't discount the site purely because of the name, but naturally that's just my opinion. I feel there is a wealth of information on there, though like any large site with light moderation, there is also plenty of dirt to dig through.

    The thread I linked was started by someone both serving in the US military and actively teaching the combatives program there. Hence why I thought it of interest, especially links like this and this:

    (Original post by Army Times, Jan 29 2008)
    [...] The Air Force sent a committee to research various existing programs, said Matt Larsen, director of Modern Army Combatives and the program’s founder.

    “At the end of the day, they decided to grow their Air Force program from the Army’s program because of our successes,” he said. “It’s a wonderful thing. The best thing is, it’s going to be an Air Force program. The Army program is designed to fit around the Army culture. The Air Force is going to grow their own [program] based on the Air Force’s culture.”

    The move gives airmen the same combatives training that soldiers get, Larsen said.

    “Army guys, Air Force guys, Navy guys, we all deploy together,” he said. “In all actuality, this is just a step toward establishing joint programs.”

    The Air Force already has “several” people who have been through the Army combatives courses, Larsen said. At least three Level III- and one Level IV-qualified airmen are at the Air Force Survival School at Fairchild Air Force Base, Wash. The Army program has four levels, with Level IV being the most advanced.

    The Army made combatives part of service doctrine in 2002. As of October 2005, every soldier receives formal training in the hand-to-hand fighting system. So far, almost 24,000 soldiers have completed Level I combatives training. [...]
    Various other articles about Modern Army Combatives from the website, here.
 
 
 
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