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    A50 - Party Bills, BaconDudeA motion to add the following to the constitution:

    1) Parties that have no representation (Holds no seats) in the House of Commons may not propose bills or amendments to the House.
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    Althought I was happy to allow WTF to put forward a bill, where do you draw the line everyone and anyone will be presenting bills. So it will be an aye from me.
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    Here here!
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    I think it should follow the same procedure as PMB's - the seconding by other MPs or whatever it is.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    Althought I was happy to allow WTF to put forward a bill, where do you draw the line everyone and anyone will be presenting bills. So it will be an aye from me.
    The line was very clearly drawn. Parties can, people and groups who are not parties can't.
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    I don't see why anyone with a vested interest in the way this house is run should be prohibited from tabling amendments. Bills fair enough, if you don't have representation you should have to seek support from someone who does. Remember people this isn't a real parliament, more debate is in general better than less and it's not just MPs who are affected by the house's rules.
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    Perhaps submit bill proposals which can be debated in the house, but an MP must take it up as their own for it to actually be submitted to a vote. That way its similar to the real life parliament, but no one is left out.
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    I think it should follow the same procedure as PMB's - the seconding by other MPs or whatever it is.
    I would agree with this.

    edit: Possibly incorporating Podgeykins idea too. I'm not convinced of the arguments for A50 though.
    In fact, I think it should fall under the responsibility of the MP that seconds it. That way we can incorporate openness, sensibility and responsibility
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    (Original post by burningnun)
    The line was very clearly drawn. Parties can, people and groups who are not parties can't.
    If we allow parties without any MP's to submit bills then why not allow individuals not too. Perhaps the best way is just to keep it to MP's and parties with MP's to table bills.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    If we allow parties without any MP's to submit bills then why not allow individuals not too. Perhaps the best way is just to keep it to MP's and parties with MP's to table bills.
    How are parties meant to become involved if they lack MPs? The Centre Party is lucky with this amendment as we have 2 MPs who joined us, but other legitimate parties may start with none, and thus be incapable of doing anything at all in the HoC, except argue on proposed bills.
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    This is an amendment so I'm going to get my two cents in. We don't allow PMB's from anyone because we would get silly ones from people who don't care about the HoC. But parties have to have at least 10 people interested to form at all, and admin approval. Isn't 10 people enough influence to allow a party to submit a bill?

    Another factor is why should having representation matter? Why to you gain the ability to have your say only when you have an MP? What they do lose is the ability to vote on those bills, but proposing them surely has no ill effects?
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    (Original post by Magnum Opus)
    How are parties meant to become involved if they lack MPs? The Centre Party is lucky with this amendment as we have 2 MPs who joined us, but other legitimate parties may start with none, and thus be incapable of doing anything at all in the HoC, except argue on proposed bills.
    Sorry but its Private Members Bill and party bills presented by MP's. Does the RL government allow anyone to walk into the house and allow them to present a bill.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    Sorry but its Private Members Bill and party bills presented by MP's. Does the RL government allow anyone to walk into the house and allow them to present a bill.
    I was waiting for someone to use this argument.

    Does the RL government allow anyone to walk into the house and discuss a bill?
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    Sorry but its Private Members Bill and party bills presented by MP's. Does the RL government allow anyone to walk into the house and allow them to present a bill.
    no (obviously) but we are not a RL parliament. I wouldn't want anyone to be able to send a PMB, but a party does already have support of people who are interested enough in the House to start a party.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    no (obviously) but we are not a RL parliament. I wouldn't want anyone to be able to send a PMB, but a party does already have support of people who are interested enough in the House to start a party.
    Wikipedia does state we have a model parliament, so this house was started on the basis of the RL house of commons.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    Wikipedia does state we have a model parliament, so this house was started on the basis of the RL house of commons.
    I feel two things, at least, need clarification here.

    1) Exactly. A model parliament. We are able to propose amendments to change the constitution, so on and so forth. Something that is based upon something else is not an exact replica by any means.

    2) No-one is proposing that anyone can just walk into the HoC and propose a bill - in fact, several people have supported the idea of a requirement for MPs to support the bill first - similar to the system of PMBs, but not the same. We can increase the requirement to several MPs, or even the backing of another party - but the fact they are a party within the HoC who have been able to meet the member requirement and have passed Admin approval tells me they should be entitled to some form of representation within Parliament.

    I simply fail to see why we are jumping to the conclusion of outright banning parties with no MPs from any involvement in proposing bills. What is the issue with them writing a bill and getting it seconded by MPs? If I am the member of a party with MPs and want to submit a bill but am not a MP myself, there's no contention. Yet here, there is.
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    Right can anyone tell me why we bother having MP's anymore ? Seriously because I'm starting to really wonder, I fought during the general election to get a seat. I waited patiently after leaving the labour party, I didnt interfere too much in the running of the house. I waited for the general election, to start putting my politics across now it seems a seat isnt important anymore.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    Right can anyone tell me why we bother having MP's anymore ? Seriously because I'm starting to really wonder, I fought during the general election to get a seat. I waited patiently after leaving the labour party, I didnt interfere too much in the running of the house. I waited for the general election, to start putting my politics across now it seems a seat isnt important anymore.
    Of course a seat is important, it is political representation. What is the issue here? We have said at least one MP is necessary for a bill to be read, let alone the MPs alone to then vote on it. No-one is detracting MPs powers or role here. No-one is giving the power of MPs to anyone else. We are simply discussing how we can work the involvement of other parties in the House. MPs are still fundamentally integral to that process :s:
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    (Original post by Magnum Opus)
    Of course a seat is important, it is political representation. What is the issue here? We have said at least one MP is necessary for a bill to be read, let alone the MPs alone to then vote on it. No-one is detracting MPs powers or role here. No-one is giving the power of MPs to anyone else. We are simply discussing how we can work the involvement of other parties in the House. MPs are still fundamentally integral to that process :s:
    Yes you are, private membeers bills is reserved for MP's your attacking one of the MP's powers.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    Yes you are, private membeers bills is reserved for MP's your attacking one of the MP's powers.
    As I said earlier, this is by no means extending PMBs to parties without MPs. This is an entirely new system
    EDIT: Read the thread title, Re: A50 - Party Bills


    OK, I feel I have argued the point of "for". Could I have some arguments against? :p:
 
 
 
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