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    (Original post by burningnun)
    I would rather the proposer of this amendment had even nominally thought it through, but OK.
    Well, obviously. But this would be a way around it.
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    (Original post by Magnum Opus)
    I'm not sure if the same person under a different account would be able to second their own bill, but seeing as the party has more than one member anyway, that wouldn't be necessary.
    What he means is, you can submit a PMB by Witness the Fitness which would be seconded by an MP, even if this passes. As such, the Witness the Fitness party not being able to submit a bill doesn't matter.
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    Yeah, and if the proposer was a dupe called Witness the Fitness, the bill would have Witness the Fitness written at the top. Then when they get some MPs it'd make sense to have an amendment saying that those bills passed by the member Witness the Fitness were passed by the party or somesuch. You can all go mental about how unconstitutional this is if you like.
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    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/member.php?u=323966

    There we go.
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    Its interesting that this argument wouldn't have happened if burningnun had read the rules and just proposed the PMB on his own as opposed to doing it on behlaf of his party, or if Dayne had just made that change himself.
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    Dayne told us we could submit party bills.

    In any case this amendment strikes me as an admission that the rules as they currently stand, are on our side. If they weren't, this amendment would not be necessary.
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    (Original post by Jangrafess)
    Yeah, and if the proposer was a dupe called Witness the Fitness, the bill would have Witness the Fitness written at the top. Then when they get some MPs it'd make sense to have an amendment saying that those bills passed by the member Witness the Fitness were passed by the party or somesuch. You can all go mental about how unconstitutional this is if you like.
    Actually, it wouldn't work, as to propose a bill don't you need to be a member with over 250 posts and some amount of time on the site?
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    Actually, it wouldn't work, as to propose a bill don't you need to be a member with over 250 posts and some amount of time on the site?
    Do you? Okay. I thought that was only to show interest in a party or vote or something, but I suppose it makes sense to apply the same thing everywhere.
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Its interesting that this argument wouldn't have happened if burningnun had read the rules and just proposed the PMB on his own as opposed to doing it on behlaf of his party, or if Dayne had just made that change himself.
    It doesn't say in the rules that he couldn't do it the way he did. And he didn't want to propose it himself, it's not a burningnun bill, it's a WtF Party bill.
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    This is completely unacceptable, people are going off trying to make the rules up themselves. This amendment will be going to the vote, and if it passes then that will be the rule not what you decide on individually or in small groups.
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    Anal.
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    (Original post by 01kij114)
    This is completely unacceptable, people are going off trying to make the rules up themselves. This amendment will be going to the vote, and if it passes then that will be the rule not what you decide on individually or in small groups.
    If you don't like it, pass another amendment saying PMBs are not allowed from people without a seat even if they have a seconder.

    We will continue to submit bills within the rules set out in the constitution and if you don't like those rules because they suck I would suggest you ask someone other than BaconDude to write them.
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    Just to clear things up, the constitution does state that only MPs may submit private members bills, in bill procedures (directions to speaker).

    Procedures:

    Bill procedures (directions for the speaker):

    1) Party leaders or MP’s (submitting private members bills) will send the Bill to the speaker
    2) The speaker will acknowledge they have received the bill and post the bill title and post the date the bill will go up for discussion in the Hansard.
    3) The speaker will then post the Bill in the House of Common forum on the day a bill is to go up for discussion (as stated in the Hansard)
    4) The speaker will then PM all members to inform them that a new bill is up for discussion
    5) The speaker will then follow all the procedures for the bill as stated in this constitution
    6) The speaker will remind the submitters of the bill when they have 48 hours left to make decisions on whether a bill goes to another reading or to voting
    7) The speaker will be responsible for posting the final bill in the Division lobby and sending a PM round to the MP’s to inform them of a vote
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    That's interesting. Why does everyone think that non MPs are allowed?
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    (Original post by Eru Iluvatar)
    Just to clear things up, the constitution does state that only MPs may submit private members bills, in bill procedures (directions to speaker).
    Well an MP, or Party Leader sends it; they don't have to be the one to write it. So regardless of this amendment, the WtF Party can still submit bills via the Party Leader, no?

    EDIT: No, I'm wrong, this amendment will get rid of the Party Leader part.
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    (Original post by Magnum Opus)
    Well an MP, or Party Leader sends it; they don't have to be the one to write it. So regardless of this amendment, the WtF Party can still submit bills via the Party Leader, no?

    EDIT: No, I'm wrong, this amendment will get rid of the Party Leader part.
    Exactly, if it goes through it will stop WTF submitting bills directly (though there is no reason why someone else who is an MP can't submit them for them)
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    As Alasdair pointed out earlier, the critical question is this: whose name goes on the bill?
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    We if it's a Party Bill that is submitted by the leader, thus putting the Party name on it; won't this amendment mean only PMBs can be sent, or am I missing something :mute:

    edit: oh, parties without representation. Still, it seems stupid that one Party Leader can create and submit a bill complete independently of an MP in their party, yet not having an MP means they can't. There's no difference
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    Nobody has a f'ing clue what's going on. I think BaconDude had better clarify :awesome:
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    (Original post by Magnum Opus)
    We if it's a Party Bill that is submitted by the leader, thus putting the Party name on it; won't this amendment mean only PMBs can be sent, or am I missing something :mute:

    edit: oh, parties without representation. Still, it seems stupid that one Party Leader can create and submit a bill complete independently of an MP in their party, yet not having an MP means they can't. There's no difference
    This amendment means that parties without MPs would not be able to put forward bills as a party.

    If an MP from another party put forward their bill, submitting it to the speaker, their name would go on it, even if it was not their bill originally (at least thats my interpretation), though there is nothing preventing "actually submitted by party X" in the preamble.
 
 
 
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