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Gates bolsters Army with 22,000 troops Watch

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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    Tell me about it, feeling abit too englishized :rofl:

    So when are you planning on joining the army? They can help pay for law or medical school can't they?
    I am thinking of either finishing college and then going into army OCS, joining ROTC maybe a year into college, or completing Marine OCS over a couple of summers.

    To be honest it is a tough decision. I am not sure whether I am good officer material, even though I am in shape, I love to hike and put myself through physical pain, I like a structured routine, and I want to serve my country - I am also a bit of an academic. So I want to kind of learn about myself a bit more in college before I jump into the military - mostly because if I join the army I don't want to sit behind a desk for three years.
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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    Yeah but i heard they will recruit more immigrants, stupid if you ask me. It is dangerous and there will be less professionalism.
    So you would rather the entire US military was made up of Native Americans?
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    So you would rather the entire US military was made up of Native Americans?
    Lets be honest here, Native Americans make awesome soldiers.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    So you would rather the entire US military was made up of Native Americans?
    Did I mean that :rolleyes:

    I meant they are going to be recruiting people who are NOT US CITIZENS.

    edit: they are going to be recruiting people who have temporary stay e.t.c
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    (Original post by dn013)
    Ye, thinking about it Japan could do with some decent aircraft considering that Kim Jong Ill is having too much fun with his nukes.

    Thanks for all the info! The Eurofighter is still a pretty damned impressive aircraft. Last week I had the pleasure of watching three practice right above my head just as I got into Robin Hood's bay after hiking for 12 days - made the end of the walk pretty special.

    A bit off topic, but as you are very knowledgeable in military matters what do you think of the whole helicopter situation?

    The ones they have aren't bad! And as it's all american kit, if NK ever did do anything then the spams would jump in in a heartbeat to prevent any of their kit being made to 'look bad' as it were.


    It's messed up. The crews and the vehicles do their best, but it's been on a downward spiral for 15 years. Some of the Chinooks we're still using have been in service since the Falklands. The numbers coming out of both sides of the argument are a bit wide of the mark, but it doesn't matter. Even if we bought 100 new helicopters tomorrow [and we need to, we need to replace both the Puma fleet and the Chinook fleet] it'd still take 2 years to get enough fully trained crews - both flight and ground - ready to operate it where it mattered. And that's 2 years after getting the airframes, a step which itself could take 2-4 years.

    No easy fix. Doesn't stop it being a shocking situation though.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    I am thinking of either finishing college and then going into army OCS, joining ROTC maybe a year into college, or completing Marine OCS over a couple of summers.

    To be honest it is a tough decision. I am not sure whether I am good officer material, even though I am in shape, I love to hike and put myself through physical pain, I like a structured routine, and I want to serve my country - I am also a bit of an academic. So I want to kind of learn about myself a bit more in college before I jump into the military - mostly because if I join the army I don't want to sit behind a desk for three years.
    That's the problem I had. I wanted to be an officer because you need bit more qualifications for that but right now I am studying. With a bit more research I will one day serve them in some capacity. It's tough work though as you say lol
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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    Did I mean that :rolleyes:

    I meant they are going to be recruiting people who are NOT US CITIZENS.

    edit: they are going to be recruiting people who have temporary stay e.t.c

    Well, it depends how you view it... How long have the US armed forces been recruiting people from Puerto Rico? I know that situation isn't quite the same as recruiting non-nationals, but it's not far off.

    In my mind, as long as they're volunteering, it won't matter. The problems with professionalism arise when you're conscripting people who just don't want to be there.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Not strictly true, but close enough for argument's sake.

    All their armed forces are titled 'Self Defence Force', so for instance, the Japanese Air Forces is properly titled the JASDF: Japanese Air Self Defence Force, and has some pretty decent kit! [All American or homemade]
    Lol thanks I wasn't entirely sure of the detail. That's interesting. So is there like any cap on their maximum military size?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    The ones they have aren't bad! And as it's all american kit, if NK ever did do anything then the spams would jump in in a heartbeat to prevent any of their kit being made to 'look bad' as it were.


    It's messed up. The crews and the vehicles do their best, but it's been on a downward spiral for 15 years. Some of the Chinooks we're still using have been in service since the Falklands. The numbers coming out of both sides of the argument are a bit wide of the mark, but it doesn't matter. Even if we bought 100 new helicopters tomorrow [and we need to, we need to replace both the Puma fleet and the Chinook fleet] it'd still take 2 years to get enough fully trained crews - both flight and ground - ready to operate it where it mattered. And that's 2 years after getting the airframes, a step which itself could take 2-4 years.

    No easy fix. Doesn't stop it being a shocking situation though.
    Feel free to completely destroy me on this point, but it seems like the UK has too few helicopters is because it did not fight in Vietnam and so did not learn the same lessons as the US did.

    Is it not possible for other NATO countries or the US to specifically supply the British army with some of their helicopters and crews?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Well, it depends how you view it... How long have the US armed forces been recruiting people from Puerto Rico? I know that situation isn't quite the same as recruiting non-nationals, but it's not far off.

    In my mind, as long as they're volunteering, it won't matter. The problems with professionalism arise when you're conscripting people who just don't want to be there.
    Not sure how long but this time there have been some pressing concerns with recruiting non US citizens. I think in small numbers it is fine but alot of senators were not comfortable with it.
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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    Lol thanks I wasn't entirely sure of the detail. That's interesting. So is there like any cap on their maximum military size?

    I would imagine there was, whether or not it's still important is another matter. You would have to assume, with China's continually growing military [in size and capability] and NK's refusal to sit down and behave, that noone would begrudge Japan if they went a bit over whatever limit was set in the '40s.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    Feel free to completely destroy me on this point, but it seems like the UK has too few helicopters is because it did not fight in Vietnam and so did not learn the same lessons as the US did.

    Is it not possible for other NATO countries or the US to specifically supply the British army with some of their helicopters and crews?
    General Dannatt of the British Army took a farewell tour of Afghanistan in a US chopper saying there werent enough British ones available. I think the British army in size is too small as well.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Well, it depends how you view it... How long have the US armed forces been recruiting people from Puerto Rico? I know that situation isn't quite the same as recruiting non-nationals, but it's not far off.

    In my mind, as long as they're volunteering, it won't matter. The problems with professionalism arise when you're conscripting people who just don't want to be there.
    A bit off topic but can I ask you two questions:

    1) Are you in the military (I am guessing yes)

    2) What made you suited to military life?

    Thanks
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I would imagine there was, whether or not it's still important is another matter. You would have to assume, with China's continually growing military [in size and capability] and NK's refusal to sit down and behave, that noone would begrudge Japan if they went a bit over whatever limit was set in the '40s.
    I for one, would like to see the relaxation of these 1940's rules.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    Feel free to completely destroy me on this point, but it seems like the UK has too few helicopters is because it did not fight in Vietnam and so did not learn the same lessons as the US did.

    Is it not possible for other NATO countries or the US to specifically supply the British army with some of their helicopters and crews?

    I won't destroy you, but I will say I reckon that's bollox :p: You could easily argue that we paid attention to what happened to the Russians in Afghanistan [more recent than 'Nam] and their losing of 200+ helicopters in 8 years.

    What we're suffering from is a lack of funding, and a bit of shortsightedness in funding longterm projects.

    It would be technically possible, but not very feasible. The crews and troops won't be reading from the same page - and might not even have the page in the same language. It'd be fighting by commitee, and the bureaucracy would be insane.
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    (Original post by Neo Con)
    General Dannatt of the British Army took a farewell tour of Afghanistan in a US chopper saying there werent enough British ones available. I think the British army in size is too small as well.

    In fairness, there are two sides to that story...

    Yes, we're short on helicopters, but you don't really want a Chinook [capable of carrying 40-odd people] to ferry around one guy all day, when a Blackhawk [designed to carry ~10] would be much more practical.


    However, you are unquestionably right.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    A bit off topic but can I ask you two questions:

    1) Are you in the military (I am guessing yes)

    2) What made you suited to military life?

    Thanks
    1) Not yet, but due to start very soon [RAF]

    2) I have no idea. Cheesy answer? It just feels right.
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    is this bill gates, the CEO of Apple?????

    why is he even getting involved with war? he should stay away, and instead focus on developing the latest technology. he is pretty rich though!
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I won't destroy you, but I will say I reckon that's bollox :p: You could easily argue that we paid attention to what happened to the Russians in Afghanistan [more recent than 'Nam] and their losing of 200+ helicopters in 8 years.
    How about Iraq 1 though, when the US 101st was able to outflank the Iraqi army by the largest helicopter invasion (lol helicopter invasion sounds ******** but you know what I mean) in history. Surely if anyone was to avoid helicopters because of the 1980s Afghan conflict it would have been the States - who masterminded the whole strategy to push the USSR out of Afghanistan by targeting their helicopters?
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    (Original post by bodybuilder22)
    is this bill gates, the CEO of Apple?????

    why is he even getting involved with war? he should stay away, and instead focus on developing the latest technology. he is pretty rich though!
    Lol naa mate its Robert Gates, US Defense Secretary.

    But I will grant you, Bill gates is pretty rich.
 
 
 
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