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Brown - UK has enough helicopters watch

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8162969.stm

    Does anyone agree with him? I'm pretty sure he's the only person in the country who thinks our forces in Afghanistan and Iraq have enough.
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    When he was Shadow Chancellor during the 1990s he said every Pound on Defence was a wasted Pound, the man is completly ignorant about defence matters. Look at the Labour cabinet currently full of former communists and militant IRA supporters, these people hate the armed forces with passion.
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    Brown, how the **** would you know?

    (Original post by Tory Dan)
    When he was Shadow Chancellor during the 1990s he said every Pound on Defence was a wasted Pound, the man is completly ignorant about defence matters. Look at the Labour cabinet currently full of former communists and militant IRA supporters, these people hate the armed forces with passion.
    This. Couldn't have put it better (and politer) myself. Remind me to rep you when I have some tomorrow
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    (Original post by FiveFiveSix)
    Brown, how the **** would you know?
    He's Prime Minister, so I'm sure he is privy to information. He also did state that he had talked to people on the ground in Afghanistan in PM's Question time.

    Who's right, who's wrong?

    There seems to be a balance of people who say they do need more helicopters and an equal balance that they have enough helicopters. So it is confusing.

    I spoke to a serving soldier in Afghanistan and he told me that they actually need more troops, so they can actually hold ground as opposed to losing it every time we withdraw. Helicopters aren't the answer he said and that we should really be focusing our efforts in providing better vehicles which can replace vehicles which aren't fitted to combat mines/VBIEDs.
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    Brown is knowledgeable in everything he talks about, he said so himself. :p:

    I wish he would step down already and someone can try and get Great Britain back to being Great.
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    The British complain about every ******* thing..... bloody hell, the moment we hit a set back we blame it on the helicopters. Do you know how expensive it is to move around in helicopters? The problem is protective vehicles as the main cause of death are IED's not rocket launchers.

    The Taliban are complaining this much with their rag tag army
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    Some of you seriously need a slap around the head.
    I can't believe you think you can pick holes in the prime minister. Like you know everything that goes on.
    You are all posh ******* who would go against ANYTHING labour says and would quite happily wipe the butt of David Cameron.
    Just because you are incredibly and pathetically geeky, that doesn't mean you know more than the prime minister.
    You hate the fact that Gordon Brown is doing a good job with the recession. You hate the fact that people remember what **** the Tories did the last time the LEAD US into a recession. And you spend your lonesome days looking for somthing to go against Gordon Brown. *sigh* There's just no help with some people.

    So go, get off your little computer, in your littler dark room and go and get a life.
    I can actually imagine you all twittering and twithing at my words. Racking your brains for something to say, that will make your fellow geeks go 'THIS! I must remember to rep you on the morrow, Gertrude ahahah!' *snort.

    So, shoo little ones. SHOO
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    (Original post by Tishy)
    Some of you seriously need a slap around the head.
    I can't believe you think you can pick holes in the prime minister. Like you know everything that goes on.
    You are all posh ******* who would go against ANYTHING labour says and would quite happily wipe the butt of David Cameron.
    Just because you are incredibly and pathetically geeky, that doesn't mean you know more than the prime minister.
    You hate the fact that Gordon Brown is doing a good job with the recession. You hate the fact that people remember what **** the Tories did the last time the LEAD US into a recession. And you spend your lonesome days looking for somthing to go against Gordon Brown. *sigh* There's just no help with some people.

    So go, get off your little computer, in your littler dark room and go and get a life.
    I can actually imagine you all twittering and twithing at my words. Racking your brains for something to say, that will make your fellow geeks go 'THIS! I must remember to rep you on the morrow, Gertrude ahahah!' *snort.

    So, shoo little ones. SHOO
    'This was a party political broadcast on behalf of the ZanuLabour Party, may Comrade Brown live on as glorious eternal leader of the people'
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    Of course hes telling the truth, hes the bloody primeminister!


    lol
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    (Original post by Tishy)
    Some of you seriously need a slap around the head.
    I can't believe you think you can pick holes in the prime minister. Like you know everything that goes on.
    You are all posh ******* who would go against ANYTHING labour says and would quite happily wipe the butt of David Cameron.
    Just because you are incredibly and pathetically geeky, that doesn't mean you know more than the prime minister.
    You hate the fact that Gordon Brown is doing a good job with the recession. You hate the fact that people remember what **** the Tories did the last time the LEAD US into a recession. And you spend your lonesome days looking for somthing to go against Gordon Brown. *sigh* There's just no help with some people.

    So go, get off your little computer, in your littler dark room and go and get a life.
    I can actually imagine you all twittering and twithing at my words. Racking your brains for something to say, that will make your fellow geeks go 'THIS! I must remember to rep you on the morrow, Gertrude ahahah!' *snort.

    So, shoo little ones. SHOO
    And the PM isn’t trying to save his reputation in the light of constant criticism from the men on the ground, the head of the army and his own ministers?

    Face it, Brown is finished and the left in this country was finished in 1979.
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    Our own General has to use an American Helicopter for transport, how humiliating for him. That's proof enough that we don't have enough helicopters. The US military have almost 3 times the number of helicopters per soldier than we do.

    Gordon Brown's the one who cut the bloody helicopter budget in the first place argh, makes me quite mad actually.
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    (Original post by Joluk)
    Our own General has to use an American Helicopter for transport, how humiliating for him. That's proof enough that we don't have enough helicopters. The US military have almost 3 times the number of helicopters per soldier than we do.

    Gordon Brown's the one who cut the bloody helicopter budget in the first place argh, makes me quite mad actually.
    Do not compare the military expenditure of the US with the UK's.
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    (Original post by Tishy)
    Some of you seriously need a slap around the head.
    I can't believe you think you can pick holes in the prime minister. Like you know everything that goes on.
    You are all posh ******* who would go against ANYTHING labour says and would quite happily wipe the butt of David Cameron.
    Just because you are incredibly and pathetically geeky, that doesn't mean you know more than the prime minister.
    You hate the fact that Gordon Brown is doing a good job with the recession. You hate the fact that people remember what **** the Tories did the last time the LEAD US into a recession. And you spend your lonesome days looking for somthing to go against Gordon Brown. *sigh* There's just no help with some people.

    So go, get off your little computer, in your littler dark room and go and get a life.
    I can actually imagine you all twittering and twithing at my words. Racking your brains for something to say, that will make your fellow geeks go 'THIS! I must remember to rep you on the morrow, Gertrude ahahah!' *snort.

    So, shoo little ones. SHOO
    Quoted for stupidity.

    Just :facepalm:
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    The guy is either ******* delusional or doesn't give enough of a ****. I think he's both.
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    Numbers don't mater people.

    That's right, I said numbers don't matter! I'll give you a couple of seconds to think that one over... ready? Right here we go.

    The actual numbers of Helicopter the UK has at its disposal is actually fairly healthy, the only real problem is in the types of lift we actually have.
    If you look in the news, or indeed take a look at Ross Kemps fantastic Afghanistan programmes you will see one very clear trend when it comes to helicopters, they are all big beasts.

    Currently the UK is top heavy on heavy lift capability, almost everything we have in theatre is a Chinook or something else of its lift range, and the reason for this simply boils down to money.
    Ideally we would have something in theatre like the US's Blackhawk, which is a fantastic aircraft for the simple reason that it CANT carry the sort of load a Chinook can.

    If you have a heavy lift helicopter at your disposal, you are going to use it to transport huge amounts of stores not move a section of infantry for example. The UK needs to get large numbers of cheap and cheerful helicopters into theatre that can be used as battle taxis for UK troops.

    The numbers of helicopters in theatre is a drama, but what we really need is some smaller ones.
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    I'm not sure where I stand on this.

    It's true Brown is being defensive, he has, after all, got an election to win.

    BUT I don't think it's up to us to say whether there are enough helicopters or not. We have absolutely no idea what the situation is like out there, all we get is the media. Brown is being briefed by top army chiefs so I would trust his voice more than most.

    Surely he can't be lying about the conditions of people who are putting their lives on the line? The New Labour goverment can't be that shallow can they?

    Can they?
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Do not compare the military expenditure of the US with the UK's.
    Why not? Our military expenditure is pathetic, down to something like 2.4% of GDP which is the lowest since the 1930's.

    Normally when labour encounters a problem they just chuck money at it, and it normally fails. The one time more funding would help they won’t do it, idiots.
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    (Original post by Renner)
    Why not? Our military expenditure is pathetic, down to something like 2.4% of GDP which is the lowest since the 1930's.

    Normally when labour encounters a problem they just chuck money at it, and it normally fails. The one time more funding would help they won’t do it, idiots.
    Well maybe because the United States spends more than the world's total combined expenditure on military. Secondly the UK has been doing terrifically in the war, in 7 years of guerrilla warfare to lose only 100+ men is quite an achievement.

    Helicopters is not a short or long term solution to the war. If most soldiers are killed during foot patrols by IEDs how will helicopters solve this problem? The main thing soldiers need is protective vehicles, we cannot fight the Taliban from the air with all the collateral damage it incurs and the costs of its use is a lot.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Well maybe because the United States spends more than the world's total combined expenditure on military. Secondly the UK has been doing terrifically in the war, in 7 years of guerrilla warfare to lose only 100+ men is quite an achievement.

    Helicopters is not a short or long term solution to the war. If most soldiers are killed during foot patrols by IEDs how will helicopters solve this problem? The main thing soldiers need is protective vehicles, we cannot fight the Taliban from the air with all the collateral damage it incurs and the costs of its use is a lot.
    The troops are killed my IED's when there moving from one area to another, protective vehicles will never be enough because the Taliban will always just make bigger and bigger bombs. If we had more small helicopters they would not have to travel by road.

    In terms of casualties we have done very well in the war, but simply killing the Taliban is not the aim of this war. We need more troops so we can hold ground we capture to ensure our objectives are achieved, and those troops should be helped as best they can and part of this is more/smaller heles.
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    Throughout this debate many people in my opinion have got 2 issues mixed up. There is certainly a case to be made that it is reasonable to debate the reasons and validity of the Government's decision to take this country to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    That is a very separate debate from the one about equipping our troops once Parliament has decreed they should be sent to war. Once this has been done, the Government has an inate responsibility to ensure it equips them satisfactorily and with that minimise the loss of life of the troops it has sent in its name. Its failure to do so is scandalous.
 
 
 
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