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    I think he has a better idea of what the Army needs than students who are not there, nor recieving the constant military briefings that he does.
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I think he has a better idea of what the Army needs than students who are not there, nor recieving the constant military briefings that he does.
    ahem...
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8155890.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8155101.stm

    I think the Chief of the Defence Staff and the head of the army have a better idea of what the army needs than the PM.
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    (Original post by Tishy)
    Some of you seriously need a slap around the head.
    I can't believe you think you can pick holes in the prime minister. Like you know everything that goes on.
    You are all posh ******* who would go against ANYTHING labour says and would quite happily wipe the butt of David Cameron.
    Just because you are incredibly and pathetically geeky, that doesn't mean you know more than the prime minister.
    You hate the fact that Gordon Brown is doing a good job with the recession. You hate the fact that people remember what **** the Tories did the last time the LEAD US into a recession. And you spend your lonesome days looking for somthing to go against Gordon Brown. *sigh* There's just no help with some people.

    So go, get off your little computer, in your littler dark room and go and get a life.
    I can actually imagine you all twittering and twithing at my words. Racking your brains for something to say, that will make your fellow geeks go 'THIS! I must remember to rep you on the morrow, Gertrude ahahah!' *snort.

    So, shoo little ones. SHOO
    Wow. Just wow.
    No we don't like Gordon Brown, and if you took your head out of your own arse and looked at how he's run this country's finances and the country as a whole over the last 12 years you might understand why we don't like him, and why we want him out of Number 10 rather quickly. The man's an out of touch, egotistical idiot who's more concerned with his own power and status than with the country.
    And if it helps, I don't like David Cameron either. I'm generally pissed off at the way the government treats our armed forces as though they're meaningless numbers rather than people with families and lives.
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I think he has a better idea of what the Army needs than students who are not there, nor recieving the constant military briefings that he does.

    Some of us are not students, and are an awful lot closer to the military than he has ever been.

    And if you still don't want to believe us, try visiting places like Arrse or pprune and see what the serving personnel themselves say.

    For example, this thread and this thread are both far more enlightening than any political press release.



    For what it's worth, Brown has always shown the Forces disdain: when Labour regained power in 1997 he was the only member of the then cabinet to refuse a full 'military matters' brief from the MoD. To say he is full knowledgable because he recieves briefings now is naive.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    If most soldiers are killed during foot patrols by IEDs how will helicopters solve this problem?
    Flying over an IED is a sure fire way not to set it off. The simple fact is a helicopter is a much faster and safer way to transport troops around a battlefield and in an emergency; back to base.
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I think he has a better idea of what the Army needs than students who are not there, nor recieving the constant military briefings that he does.
    Some of us are in the full time Army, TA, UOTC or doing subjects which focus on war fighting and strategy. Many of my professors and lecturers are former officers or who have taught at staff colleges.

    Labour hates defence, they view the armed forces as traditionalists and Tory supporting.
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    (Original post by Tory Dan)
    Labour hates defence, they view the armed forces as traditionalists and Tory supporting.
    And we thank God that a lot of them are.
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    People need to stop spouting naive rubbish about helicopters.
    (Original post by Student2806)
    ahem...
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8155890.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8155101.stm

    I think the Chief of the Defence Staff and the head of the army have a better idea of what the army needs than the PM.
    Neither of the articles support what you are saying.

    The first article says "Sir Jock Stirrup says there is no such thing as enough helicopters" - in other words, the more helicopters the better. This may be true, but you patently can't only use helicopters. Moreover, unless our defence spending started dwarfing that of the Americans which would clearly be ridiculous, that comment is always going to ring true. It says NOTHING about the government - he did not imply that "the UK government is failing to provide enough helicopters".

    I don't know what your saw in the second. The general said "General Sir Richard Dannatt told the BBC he would compile a "shopping list" of what was required and warned that Nato may request more troops.". Saying that NATO would need more troops is

    All in all, the UK is already very involved in Afghanistan. At the end of the day, we do have a lot of helicopters, and more would not stop the casualties - we are going to have to deal with the problem of roadside bombs whatever happens.

    The Conservatives know this. Their heaviest criticisms have been laid at the time it took to get helicopters from Iraq to Afghanistan. They have refused to make promises on defence spending. Given that defence is not ringfence and that the Tories will protect international aid and increase spending on the NHS, whilst making overall cuts - it seems that a Tory government would cut defence spending. So lets not make this a party political issue.
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    (Original post by JonathanNorth)
    He's Prime Minister, so I'm sure he is privy to information. He also did state that he had talked to people on the ground in Afghanistan in PM's Question time.

    Who's right, who's wrong?

    There seems to be a balance of people who say they do need more helicopters and an equal balance that they have enough helicopters. So it is confusing.

    I spoke to a serving soldier in Afghanistan and he told me that they actually need more troops, so they can actually hold ground as opposed to losing it every time we withdraw. Helicopters aren't the answer he said and that we should really be focusing our efforts in providing better vehicles which can replace vehicles which aren't fitted to combat mines/VBIEDs.
    My bold - 'The man on the ground is always right'. If they say we need more helicopters, we need more helicopters. If they say we need more boots on the ground, we need more boots on the ground. Another maxim for you, from a good few years before this current affair - 'we do not fear the Russians, but we fear their helicopters'. Things are rarely as black and white as 'we need more of X', but it's a start.

    Why should we concentrate on building mine/IEDproof (VBIED? Why?) vehicles, when what we currently have to transport troops, e.g. helicopters, do a better job?
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    I think he has a better idea of what the Army needs than students who are not there, nor recieving the constant military briefings that he does.
    Ooh, hark at her.
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    If you're gonna send men over there you do the job properly. Lives are at risk. But I support the UK having a reduced military role, like Germany. The British taxpayer has no business going to war in Afghan or Iraq.
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    (Original post by Terryw)
    Brown is knowledgeable in everything he talks about, he said so himself. :p:

    I wish he would step down already and someone can try and get Great Britain back to being Great.
    .. and who do you suppose will get Britain back on the track to being 'great'
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    (Original post by FiveFiveSix)
    Why should we concentrate on building mine/IEDproof (VBIED? Why?) vehicles, when what we currently have to transport troops, e.g. helicopters, do a better job?
    We can't just use copters. We need people on the ground. This would be the case even with a million helicopters. Copters are only a small part of the solution - we need decent vehicles as well.
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    If the Ministry of Defence was really a ministry of DEFENCE then all we´d need is 4 nuclear subs
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    We can't just use copters. We need people on the ground. This would be the case even with a million helicopters. Copters are only a small part of the solution - we need decent vehicles as well.
    What prevents people being on the ground/in vehicles with helicopters? :confused:
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    Oh, his opinion is fine.

    As long as the next time he travels to Afghanistan he travels everywhere in a snatch Land Rover.
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    Helicopters are nothing but flying coffins anyway, if you start sending troops via air mail they'll just adapt their tactics yet again. The Russians learned that the hard way.
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    (Original post by Tishy)
    Some of you seriously need a slap around the head.
    I can't believe you think you can pick holes in the prime minister. Like you know everything that goes on.
    You are all posh ******* who would go against ANYTHING labour says and would quite happily wipe the butt of David Cameron.
    Just because you are incredibly and pathetically geeky, that doesn't mean you know more than the prime minister.
    You hate the fact that Gordon Brown is doing a good job with the recession. You hate the fact that people remember what **** the Tories did the last time the LEAD US into a recession. And you spend your lonesome days looking for somthing to go against Gordon Brown. *sigh* There's just no help with some people.

    So go, get off your little computer, in your littler dark room and go and get a life.
    I can actually imagine you all twittering and twithing at my words. Racking your brains for something to say, that will make your fellow geeks go 'THIS! I must remember to rep you on the morrow, Gertrude ahahah!' *snort.

    So, shoo little ones. SHOO
    Remind me to neg you tomorrow.
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    (Original post by Student2806)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8162969.stm

    Does anyone agree with him? I'm pretty sure he's the only person in the country who thinks our forces in Afghanistan and Iraq have enough.
    Well, General Dannatt seems to disagree. He should know.

    Brown's just mentally ill.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Well maybe because the United States spends more than the world's total combined expenditure on military. Secondly the UK has been doing terrifically in the war, in 7 years of guerrilla warfare to lose only 100+ men is quite an achievement.

    Helicopters is not a short or long term solution to the war. If most soldiers are killed during foot patrols by IEDs how will helicopters solve this problem? The main thing soldiers need is protective vehicles, we cannot fight the Taliban from the air with all the collateral damage it incurs and the costs of its use is a lot.
    Superior army training. Thats what that comes down to, not because we have 'sufficient' numbers of helicopters etc.
 
 
 
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