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Think.. What Do You Really Think And Feel About Women Wearing Hijabs?? Watch

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    (Original post by muddle)
    Sorry but when you point at someones head doesn't that automatically include the hair too?
    Well not necessarily - the Hadith specifically says that it is the face that he was referring to.

    But then again, remember that the Hadith is an Arabic text - the English may not convey the exact message.
    For example, it says the prophet "pointed" to the face. Other translations say that he indicated, motioned, signalled etc.

    It doesn't necessarily mean he used one finger and actually pointed, in the way that we would understand it.
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    (Original post by she)
    To me that sounds like something which was already being worn should be used to cover boobs, rather than it being necessary to wear a head covering. It sounds like it's necessary to cover boobs.
    Well yes, it is - but as I said to Darkened Mist - the word in Arabic used is "khimar" which refers to an atricle of clothing which is covering the head.

    If it is covering the breasts, but not the head, then it is not a khimar (head-covering), and the verse isn't being obeyed exactly.
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    You messed up the quoting, so I've altered what I'm quoting a bit.
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    No, I've translated the word as the Prophet translated it, whose authority is superior to any of our own with respect to Qur'anic interpretation.

    You're still going by what a few translations say. Yes, in one of them it uses the word "superior", in Dawud's translation - but most Muslims do not accept Dawud's translation as being wholly accurate.

    The word itself means "protector", or "guardian" with connotations of having responsibility for something.

    Yes, in Islam, men are considered to have a responsibility towards the well-being of women. Women are asked to make the job of the man easier by doing as they ask. (If you had a bodyguard who was responsible for protecting you, and the bodyguard told you to run and hide, you'd do it, wouldn't you?)

    This is not a ruler-slave relationship, in that the man can say "go and get me some coffee", and the woman must obey.
    Granted it may not be, in a modern context, slave-ruler esque, but it's still a power relation in which the men are placed above the women. Everything points towards this, please don't deny it. It infuriates me when something so clear as that is denied. The Qu'ran constantly emphasises superiority over the wife. Verse 4:34 starts by establishing that precedent. The beginning states: men are "superior", men have "authority", men are "in charge", etc. Muhammad placed the man over the wife; he is her custodian and she obeys him. Then the Quran proceeds to lay out their respective roles, then lists a progression of steps to be followed when dealing with a rebellious wife:

    -admonish them
    -then sexually desert them
    -and then beat them, if the prior two fail.

    You may continue to argue that I'm misinterpreting "beat", but the above three statements that the Qu'ran quite explicitly states (and by your own words we're supposed to take them literally) women are treated as inferior, as the property of their husbands.
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    okay so everyone has established that women in Islam wear the scarf to avoid unfavourable consequences due to male lusts etc etc. But so far no one has acknowledged exactly what its like to wear the scarf. As is evident from many posts many male non-muslims tend to shy away from hijab wearing women - its quite funny actually. like i said in an earlier post, its a choice. has it not occured to some ppl that mulism girls who dont wear the headscarves are no different from the ones that do? they are brought up with the same beliefs, live the same way of life as those who do wear the scarf, but they simply chose not to wear a garment that covers their hair. Its quite absurd when you then hear someone backing away cause they wont share the same interests.

    Has it not occured to anyone to think about the PERSON actually wearing the scarf?

    Lets use me as an example (dont hate lol - no mean comments):
    1. I'm middle eastern,
    2. ive worn a scarf since i was twelve,
    3. i tend to not really mix with the male gender of my own accord - and before anyone says it NO im not forced, im not acting unsociable etc etc have you guys SEEN the number of times people have posted up saying how shy they were around people of the opposite gender? Right, so im no different, dont judge.

    4. Ive recently started wearing those overall type thingys. like an abaya but not. they come in all colours lol. Why am i telling you this? Im trying to show you how i view things. When people view me on the street they think.. poor kid, 17 and not allowed to wear stuff other kids her age do. They dont know that underneath my overall im wearing exactly the same. They dont know that when im being lazy im walking around wearing my pajamas out all day. They dont know that when i go home i have a wardrobe filled with clothes other girls can only dream of. I swear to u every time my mum goes out she buys me something new. People who are passing judgment are only looking at my public appearance. They dont know that i walk around in school unaffected by typical girl bullying coz im already like ehh so what? Whilst other girls go through their teen years envying what other girls have.

    Be honest, girls always are in a competition to look the more coolest and stylish in front of guys. Ive managed to jump all that. Cause people tend to overlook me. Im not worth their time coz i dont pose a threat. I know this may sound extreme to some people, but ud be surprised at the extent of bullying in some schools.

    Also who said im not allowed to experience what other teens do? Im only supposed to cover up with guys i can potentially marry one day. So members of family inc. my father, grandfather, brother, uncle are all ok. Cousins however are not. that is not to say im to marry my cousins - eew- just that its valid. And its ridiculous the amount of times ive been asked if my husband can see my hair. lol Hell yeah. Id be having sex with the guy. U think i cant show him my hair if he can see other more intimate, private places. yeah, it sounds stupid to me too. also my husbands father would be allowed to see my hair. oh yh and all women are allowed to too. having said that i still have to cover the sections from my belly botton to my knees. thats strictly private, off limits. yes that means breasts arent completely forbidden, theyre allowed to be seen only when absolutely necessary ie im breast feeding. otherwise breasts are off limits too.

    Now having said THAT, it means that i can wear whatever (within the limits) when im with my girlfriends. The best times are when i invite them over to my house, or we have girls only parties coz i get to have my hair all fancied up, wear the most stylish outfits. why? CAUSE THERE ARE NO GUYS AROUND.

    I suppose what im trying to say is, people overact a whole lot when it comes to hijabs. at the end of the day all it means is that guys dont get eyecandy when i walk in the streets and having said that, its guys that usually complain the loudest when it comes to women wearing the hijab. Im not gonna discrimate between guys who wear shorts/ walk shirtless. *shrugs* its their choice.

    I hope i have managed to clear some things up with some people. Just cause i wear clothes that are long and cover my hands and legs doesnt mean i have to stick to it whenim at home or with my girls. As a random side note the first thing i do when i step home is take the head scarf off. lool and now my overall and voila im in my shorts and t0shirt from beffore i left the house :P
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    That's a bedsheet though.
    Remember we're not talking about the English word "Headscarf", we're talking about the Arabic word "Khimar". It is not a "Khimar" unless it is being used at that particular instant in time to cover one's head.

    A khimar is not an object which is designed to be used as a headscarf, a khimar is an object which is currently being used as a head-covering.
    You speak with such conviction, but the etymologoy of the word indicates that its meaning has changed quite a lot since the time of the prophet, and has had other uses apart from just meaning the headscarf, including being used to refer to a cover of any kind.


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    But then the hair itself is still exposed, isn't it?

    In English, you may disagree, and claim that the hair is not part of the body. But in Arabic, it is. The Arabic word "body" refers to the entirety of the physical form of something.

    In English, the "body" of a car refers to the metal part which gives it its shape. The main part of it.
    In Arabic, the "body" of a car refers to every single physical aspect of the car - the metal part, the tyres, the steering wheel etc.
    See above I can ******** about semantics and translation too.


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    When did I claim that the original poster was wrong?
    I've said this many times - I referred him to this verse because I suspected that he had not come across it.
    If he had come across it, it is unlikely that he would say that the head-covering is not compulsory, seeing as the most vast majority of Islamic scholars state that it is compulsory, by means of this verse alone.
    You didnt claim they were wrong, you implied that because they disagreed with you and didnt follow the common trend that OP was an idiot who knew nothing.

    The fact is you are intolerant, think you are unquestionably right, and you are a hypocrite.
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    It must stink.
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    hijab is the one which is just a scarf over your head but you can see their face right? If so it doesn't bother me, if their religion says they should then I guess they should. I assume it isn't about the culture of their home country, if it was they'd obviously not wear it as they'd want to respect British cultural traditions just as if I was a women living in a Muslim country I'd wear a hijab to fit into the culture, so a Muslim women here wouldn't wear a hijab unless islam tells her too.

    The one which covers your whole body and face and just leaves slits for the eyes (sometimes even that slit has a thin mesh over it) I think shouldn't be worn. It makes things awkward and causes security risks. If they want to cover themselves up that much then they can do it at home(which defeats the point) or live in a Muslim country wear it is commonplace.
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    I don't mind Hijabis. As for Islam, I think it's a beautiful religion.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    You speak with such conviction, but the etymologoy of the word indicates that its meaning has changed quite a lot since the time of the prophet, and has had other uses apart from just meaning the headscarf, including being used to refer to a cover of any kind.
    Of course - the word has been used to refer to lots of things. The same triliteral root word is used to refer even to alcoholic drinks.

    But in this context, the sentence refers specifically to a head-covering, ad this has been backed up by Hadith as well.

    It is not a coincidence that the scholars who say that a headscarf is compulsory are in the vast majority.


    You didnt claim they were wrong, you implied that because they disagreed with you and didnt follow the common trend that OP was an idiot who knew nothing
    No I didn't.
    You keep making these accusations and fail to produce evidence.
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    (Original post by Lolabunny18)
    The only thing i dont understand about women in hijabs is that if it says in their religion that they should, then why do only some women do it? If there are muslim women that don't, then it must mean that it isn't compulsory to wear it.

    If it isn't compulsory, then why wear it in this country where people tend to discriminate (justfully) against women in hijabs?
    Well I am a muslim and choose not 2 wear the hijab even though I know it's wrong. In our religion we are technically supposed 2 wear the hijab after reaching puberty as a sign of modesty & basically just 2 cover up our bodies meaning that it is compulsory.However, ppl don't follow their religion properly these days. A lot of muslims go out 2 clubs & drink even though it's not acceptable. I personally don't wear revealing clothes but I just choose not 2 wear the headscarf because it's slightly uncomfortable & it's sort of a big commitment. I really applaud women who the hijab in discriminating countries because it shows that they stand up 4 what they believe in & don't understand why ppl have such a problem against the hijab. I mean don't nuns cover their hair?!!:confused:
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Of course - the word has been used to refer to lots of things. The same triliteral root word is used to refer even to alcoholic drinks.

    But in this context, the sentence refers specifically to a head-covering, ad this has been backed up by Hadith as well.

    It is not a coincidence that the scholars who say that a headscarf is compulsory are in the vast majority.
    ''Its no surprise that those who believed witches should be hanged were in the majority''

    Your statement is retarded, people believing something does not make it correct.



    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    No I didn't. You keep making these accusations and fail to produce evidence.
    I dont need to its at the begining of this thread, you presumed that OP didnt know what he was talking about, why did you think that? The only reason there can be is the fact that OP said something you disagreed with, something you thought was wrong.

    It is not a case of right and wrong with religion, it never is.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Granted it may not be, in a modern context, slave-ruler esque, but it's still a power relation in which the men are placed above the women. Everything points towards this, please don't deny it. It infuriates me when something so clear as that is denied. The Qu'ran constantly emphasises superiority over the wife. Verse 4:34 starts by establishing that precedent. The beginning states: men are "superior", men have "authority", men are "in charge", etc. Muhammad placed the man over the wife; he is her custodian and she obeys him. Then the Quran proceeds to lay out their respective roles, then lists a progression of steps to be followed when dealing with a rebellious wife:

    -admonish them
    -then sexually desert them
    -and then beat them, if the prior two fail.

    You may continue to argue that I'm misinterpreting "beat", but the above three statements that the Qu'ran quite explicitly states (and by your own words we're supposed to take them literally) women are treated as inferior, as the property of their husbands.
    Men are placed in a different position to women. I don't really know what you mean when you say that they are "above" the women though - the roles they have been given aren't quantified.

    The Qur'an does not say anywhere that women are to be treated as inferior, or that they are the property of their husbands.

    It says that men have a degree of advantage over them (i.e. they have physical strength that women do not have).
    As such, they have been made as protectors, guardians, or whatever you want to call them.

    Would you consider a bodyguard to be "above" the person he is guarding? Or would you just consider him as someone who has been given a job to do?

    Men do have authority over women, and women also hve authority over men. By "authority", I don't mean in the sense of subservience or slavery - I mean that a husbad or wife can order their spouse to do smething in order to prevent difficulty to their own duties.
    For example, a man has the responsibility of protecting his wife from danger. So he is allowed to tell his wife "don't go wandering in dark alleyways at night".
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    ''Its no surprise that those who believed witches should be hanged were in the majority''

    Your statement is retarded, people believing something does not make it correct.


    I dont need to its at the begining of this thread, you presumed that OP didnt know what he was talking about, why did you think that? The only reason there can be is the fact that OP said something you disagreed with, something you thought was wrong.
    If someone differs from the massive concensus on what is permitted or prohibited in Islam, it is likely that they haven't come across the same verses as everyone else.

    If I claimed to be a fundamentalist Christian, and stated that it was actually Satan who created the universe, not God, you'd think I hadn't read Genesis, wouldn't you?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Men are placed in a different position to women. I don't really know what you mean when you say that they are "above" the women though - the roles they have been given aren't quantified.

    The Qur'an does not say anywhere that women are to be treated as inferior, or that they are the property of their husbands.

    It says that men have a degree of advantage over them (i.e. they have physical strength that women do not have).
    As such, they have been made as protectors, guardians, or whatever you want to call them.

    Would you consider a bodyguard to be "above" the person he is guarding? Or would you just consider him as someone who has been given a job to do?

    Men do have authority over women, and women also hve authority over men. By "authority", I don't mean in the sense of subservience or slavery - I mean that a husbad or wife can order their spouse to do smething in order to prevent difficulty to their own duties.
    For example, a man has the responsibility of protecting his wife from danger. So he is allowed to tell his wife "don't go wandering in dark alleyways at night".
    So you're effectively ignoring the examples within the Qu'ran I'm giving you. Would you say (assuming you actually believe that Islam isn't biased towards men) that Islamic states, such as Saudi Arabia, which clearly place the female as inferior (banned from driving on public roads, etc) are going directly against the principles of the Qu'ran, therefore?
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    So you're effectively ignoring the examples within the Qu'ran I'm giving you.
    I'm not ignoring the examples, I'm just telling you that the examples you've given aren't saying men are "better" than women.

    Would you say (assuming you actually believe that Islam isn't biased towards men) that Islamic states, such as Saudi Arabia, which clearly place the female as inferior (banned from driving on public roads, etc) are going directly against the principles of the Qu'ran, therefore?
    I'm not familiar with all the many laws of Saudi Arabia.

    Although the thing about the driving - it doesn't directly contradict the Qur'an, but the Qur'an doesn't promote what they're doing either.
    If they think their country is better off if women don't drive, then that's their business.

    But if they think that women are actually inferior to men, then the Qur'an does not support this.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    So you're effectively ignoring the examples within the Qu'ran I'm giving you. Would you say (assuming you actually believe that Islam isn't biased towards men) that Islamic states, such as Saudi Arabia, which clearly place the female as inferior (banned from driving on public roads, etc) are going directly against the principles of the Qu'ran, therefore?
    No you're right. Muslims don't abide by islam properly anymore and many muslim countries don't either but you can't say that this is the religion's fault.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I'm not ignoring the examples, I'm just telling you that the examples you've given aren't saying men are "better" than women.

    I'm not familiar with all the many laws of Saudi Arabia.

    Although the thing about the driving - it doesn't directly contradict the Qur'an, but the Qur'an doesn't promote what they're doing either.
    If they think their country is better off if women don't drive, then that's their business.

    But if they think that women are actually inferior to men, then the Qur'an does not support this.
    Do you agree with or condemn the actions of countries like Saudi Arabia? Another example, while female circumcision is not condoned by the Qur'an, it is still practised in some predominantly Muslim areas in Africa. Would you condemn this too? I hope so.

    Actually, what's your stance on females within the Islamic religion? Do you believe Muslim men and women should have complete and utter legal, and social, equal rights?
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    (Original post by sarah_91)
    No you're right. Muslims don't abide by islam properly anymore and many muslim countries don't either but you can't say that this is the religion's fault.
    Thank you. That's what I was getting at. But he doesn't seem to be condemning it at all, which is strange :/
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    (Original post by IJI147)
    You lot just need to leave these people the **** alone.
    True SOME parents do force it upon their children to wear scarves and cover themselves up etc. but for most children IT IS THEIR CHOICE.
    For example my little sister when she started to read the qu'raan and get to know her religion she DECIDED that she wanted to wear a scarf because she thought it was the right thing to do by herself. My parents never forced anything upon us (even though my mum is very religious).
    All thiss bs about muslim women being oppressed this and that is a load of crap. TBH look around you! In western countries all you see, no matter where you look, is what are women wearing? how to look sexy. How to attract men etc. I find it funny when people say things like these women are being degraded. So you think women walking around skankly dressed, going out getting drunk, and sleeping around isn't degrading? When women dress in such a way it is only to please the needs of men and in doing so it makes them feel better about themselves. However, this is not the way. The reason why some of these women choose to cover up is because they know what we (MANY OF US MEN) are actually like, and do so as their choice. These women do not wear hijjabs 24/7 when they go home they are dressed like any other women, they just cover up out of modesty and self respect. Although i do agree about the whole covering the face thing as just over the top. And besides in many muslim countries (NOT INCLUDING THE OPPRESSIVE MIDDLE EAST AND SUCH), women are treated as equals and shown respect simply because thats the way many of the people have been raised in those countries. Unlike the west which seems to promote sex, alcohol drugs etc...

    just my two cents people dont take it to heart if u dont disagree

    BUT JUST LET THESE PEOPLE BE!!
    I strongly AGREE!:yes:
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Do you agree with or condemn the actions of countries like Saudi Arabia?
    Well as I said, I don't personally know what all their laws are. I'm not going to outright say I condemn it - who knows, maybe they have a good reason? Like I said, it's their business.

    But if I were a lawmaker of a country, then I wouldn't make any laws saying that women can't drive - especially when they seem to be better drivers anyway.

    Another example, while female circumcision is not condoned by the Qur'an, it is still practised in some predominantly Muslim areas in Africa. Would you condemn this too? I hope so.
    I would condemn it because Muhammad condemned it.
    (I assume you're talking about forced circumcision, rather than what women do to themselves of their own accord?)

    Actually, what's your stance on females within the Islamic religion? Do you believe Muslim men and women should have complete and utter legal, and social, equal rights?
    Well mostly, but not completely.

    Men and women aren't identical to each other. They're very similar, so I think the laws and rights should reflect this by being similar. But there are differences between them, so I think that there should be differences in their laws and rights to reflect this too.

    For example, a man forcing a woman to have sex with him recieves a harsher punishment than a woman forcing a man to have sex with her.
    Or for example, women who have young children aren't put in prison, or subject to the death penalty. Instead, they are confined to their own homes for crimes they commit - because Islam does not want the children to suffer by losing their mother.
 
 
 
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