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Think.. What Do You Really Think And Feel About Women Wearing Hijabs?? Watch

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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    If you really want me to I can find the quote, but i read last night a verse talking about headscarves and i know for sure the quran instrucs women to only allow thier face and hands to men who would show sexual lust to them.
    I believe you, it's just from what I remember it just talks about getting dressed modestly and it tells us that Muhammeds (pbuh) wives were screened by a veil/curtain.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    ''Draw their head coverings over their bosoms'', bosoms are breasts not heads, the statement means cover their breasts up. Headscarves were common when the quran was written, therefore it is logical to say that a common piece of clothing should be used to cover up parts of the body.

    Learn to read. i find this post hilarious considering the amount of *****ing you do about non muslims taking things out of context, which is what have obviously done here without question or thinking.
    The word used is "head-coverings". How can you cover your breasts with a head-covering if you don't have a head-covering?
    If you aren't covering your head with it, then it is not a head-covering, it's just a piece of cloth.

    What makes you think headscarves were common when the Qur'an was written?



    And in any case:

    Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: "Asma bint Abu Bakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah while she was wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands." Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4092
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    The word used is "head-coverings". How can you cover your breasts with a head-covering if you don't have a head-covering?
    This is what is says word for word : draw their head coverings over their bosoms

    The quote you used does not at any point say you have to wear a head covering, If you look at traditional middle eastern dress you will find that head coverings were a large piece of cloth that covered both the head and neck. This kind of clothing can easily be drawn down around a woman to cover her breasts, keeping her modest.

    The presumption in your quote that a woman would be wearing a head covering is is not an order, it is simply a reference to the common expected dress at the time.

    I am not specifically debating the need for the hijab, I am drawing attention to the fact that you are a hypocrite and just like us non muslims are perfectly capable of taking things out of context, which you have done.

    Next time if you want to show that the headscarve is required by the quran, actually find a quote where it is a direct command.

    (Original post by tazarooni89)


    And in any case:

    Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: "Asma bint Abu Bakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah while she was wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands." Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4092
    In response to your edit, how does that statement in any way say you have to wear a head covering?

    I would ask where at any point does it specifically state that a head covering is required?
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    (Original post by Electric Eel)
    Coming from a place where most of the girls wear hijabs, I would have to say that I would never choose to wear it myself.

    However, if a woman chooses to wear a hijab out of her own free will and she's happy with it, then I have no problem with it. I just find it horrible when parents force their daughters to wear it - especially at such young ages, which defeats the whole purpose of wearing the hijbab in the first place.

    I don't have a problem with women who wear it, I have a problem with anyone who thinks that all Muslim women should else they're "sinners". It's more than a social/religious statement - it's a lifestyle and a lifetime commitment.
    :ditto:
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    This is what is says word for word : draw their head coverings over their bosoms

    The quote you used does not at any point say you have to wear a head covering, If you look at traditional middle eastern dress you will find that head coverings were a large piece of cloth that covered both the head and neck. This kind of clothing can easily be drawn down around a woman to cover her breasts, keeping her modest.

    The presumption in your quote that a woman would be wearing a head covering is is not an order, it is simply a reference to the common expected dress at the time.

    I am not specifically debating the need for the hijab, I am drawing attention to the fact that you are a hypocrite and just like us non muslims are perfectly capable of taking things out of context, which you have done.

    Next time if you want to show that the headscarve is required by the quran, actually find a quote where it is a direct command.
    This isn't out of context. Just read the thing.
    "Draw their headcoverings over their bosoms" - it's a bit hard to do if you don't have a headcovering.

    Things don't need to be given as direct commands in order to be necessary.
    If you're told that you must always use your headcovering to cover your breasts, the command of actually having a head-covering is included, since it is impossible to obey the explicit command in the Qur'an without the head-covering.

    The word used in the Qur'an is خمار (khimar) which means an article of clothing which is covering the head.
    If you are not covering your head with a khimar, then it is not possible to obey the Qur'anic command, which states that it must cover the breasts as well.

    In response to your edit, how does that statement in any way say you have to wear a head covering?

    I would ask where at any point does it specifically state that a head covering is required?
    Because if the only parts of your body which are uncovered are the hands and the face, this automatically means that the rest of the body (including the head) are covered.

    You seem to be asking for a direct command "cover your head", even though it isn't needed.
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    Covering the hair only doesn't bother me at all. :dontknow:
    One of my best friends in my first secondary school used to wear a headscarf and occasionally a bit of her hair would show by mistake. It always used to embarrass me, as if I had seen something dirty and private. I didn't like feeling like that, especially when she was a rarity and my other best friend who was also a Muslim didn't wear a hijab, but in general, it made no difference to how well we got on.
    You are a female right? Females are allowed to see the hair of Muslim girls, so you shouldn't be feeling like that at all.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    This isn't out of context. Just read the thing.
    "Draw their headcoverings over their bosoms" - it's a bit hard to do if you don't have a headcovering.

    Things don't need to be given as direct commands in order to be necessary.

    If you're told that you must always use your headcovering to cover your breasts, the command of actually having a head-covering is included.
    Not its not included, it is implied that the person would normally be wearing a head covering.


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Because if the only parts of your body which are uncovered are the hands and the face, this automatically means that the rest of the body (including the head) are covered.

    You seem to be asking for a direct command "cover your head", even though it isn't needed.

    The face is part of the head, and you know what humans have this terribly odd thing called hair that covers them up, why would the prophet have needed to indicate that the head be covered up...when it is usually already covered up with hair.

    You are reading into the words with your own cultural interpretation and unwilling in any way to accept anything other than your strict views on words that can be read differently. The quran is the word of god yes, but you seem to claim perfect understanding of it, if I am correct doesnt that mean you are a heretic since humans cannot be perfect in the face of Allah? If you claim you have a perfect infalible understanding of the words in the quran, you are claiming yourself equal to Allah, which if I am not mistaken is probably a bigger sin that not wearing a head covering.

    Unless you are prepared to accept that you could be wrong, you are not a true muslim and really need to learn about something called humility.

    I dont have any problem with Islam at all, I have a problem with indoctrination, dogma, and organised religion in general.
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    I wear the hijab myself and my parents didnt force me to wear it. In fact, my mother doesn't even wear the hijab. It was a personal choice that I made when I was about 14 and I don't rue the decision I made. Women who I know that wear the hijab are not secluded from the rest of society nor are they indoctrinated. Although I do agree a proportion are. I find wearing the hijab rather liberating. I think many people have a misconception that women who wear the hijab have been subjugated to do so and I think us muslim women who wear the hijab need to ensure that we dispel such misconceptions. I also think that it is unacceptable for muslims to criticise the way non-muslim's dress. I have many non-muslims friends and we just embrace our differences and just enjoy life.

    However, it's a completely different issue when muslim women wear the veil. For me wearing the veil does indeed isolate you and cut you off from the rest of the society. At least when wearing the hijab you are able to see one's face but by wearing the veil your essentially concealing your identity. Wearing the veil is more to do with culture than it is with religion. It's most common in places like Afghanistan and I agree that women there have been forced into wearing the veil.

    But with regards to the hijab it's a choice that one should make with complete freedom and I think we need to educate the older muslim generation who may force their daughter's and wives to wear the hijab against their will.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Not its not included, it is implied that the person would normally be wearing a head covering.
    But if the person does not have a head-covering, how can they draw a head-covering over their bosoms?

    If I commanded you to go and drive a car, included in this is the command to actually get a car first, isn't it?
    You can't drive a car if you don't have one.

    Similarly, if you're told to cover your breasts with a head-covering, included in this is the command to actually have a head covering. You can't cover your breasts with a head-covering if you don't have one.


    The face is part of the head, and you know what humans have this terribly odd thing called hair that covers them up, why would the prophet have needed to indicate that the head be covered up...when it is usually already covered up with hair.
    Because the hair is also a part of the body.

    The only parts of the body which it is acceptable to display are the face (i.e. not the entire head) and the hands.

    With no head-covering, the hair remains on display.

    The quran is the word of god yes, but you seem to claim perfect understanding of it, if I am correct doesnt that mean you are a heretic since humans cannot be perfect in the face of Allah?

    If you claim you have a perfect infalible understanding of the words in the quran, you are claiming yourself equal to Allah, which if I am not mistaken is probably a bigger sin that not wearing a head covering.
    I'm giving you the same interpretation of it that all Sunni Islamic scholars, and the majority of Shi'a Islamic scholars have agreed upon - with no attempt to find loopholes or twist words.

    And when have I claimed perfect understanding of the entire Qur'an anyway?
    Although there are verses in the Qur'an which are certainly not difficult to understand, and which anyone who has read it can claim a perfect understanding of.
    The Qur'an itself repeats four times in Chapter 17: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    But if the person does not have a head-covering, how can they draw a head-covering over their bosoms?

    If I commanded you to go and drive a car, included in this is the command to actually get a car first, isn't it?
    You can't drive a car if you don't have one.

    Similarly, if you're told to cover your breasts with a head-covering, included in this is the command to actually have a head covering. You can't cover your breasts with a head-covering if you don't have one.
    So you base your religious dogma around a simple implication? you see I think that you get really pissed off when people do the same to imply bad things about your religion.

    Implication is not command, that statement requires a covering of the breasts, can you not do that with a high collared shirt and jacket.



    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Because the hair is also a part of the body.

    The only parts of the body which it is acceptable to display are the face (i.e. not the entire head) and the hands.

    With no head-covering, the hair remains on display.
    You actually mean that it is part of the body in your opinion.


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I'm giving you the same interpretation of it that all Sunni Islamic scholars, and the majority of Shi'a Islamic scholars have agreed upon - with no attempt to find loopholes or twist words.

    And when have I claimed perfect understanding of the entire Qur'an anyway?
    Although there are verses in the Qur'an which are certainly not difficult to understand, and which anyone who has read it can claim a perfect understanding of.
    The Qur'an itself repeats four times in Chapter 17: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
    Oh so lots of people thinking something makes it right and correct does it?

    Didnt at one point lots of people believe god had made earth the center of the universe.............

    You cannot ever have a perfect understanding, you cant, its as simple as that. humans are fallible and you could be wrong. I could be wrong about what I believe in, I am perfectly willing to accept that, I know my interpretation of any religious text could be wrong because I dont pretend to fully understand the word of god.
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    (Original post by Faith01)
    You are a female right? Females are allowed to see the hair of Muslim girls, so you shouldn't be feeling like that at all.
    Exactly. Yet I did feel embarrassed.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    So you base your religious dogma around a simple implication? you see I think that you get really pissed off when people do the same to imply bad things about your religion.

    Implication is not command, that statement requires a covering of the breasts, can you not do that with a high collared shirt and jacket.
    No, because the Qur'an says it must be done with a head-covering.
    This isn't an implication. It's explicit but indirect.

    The Qur'an may not actually say that you have to cover your head, but it gives a command which is impossible to carry out without covering your head.


    You actually mean that it is part of the body in your opinion.
    No, I mean that it's a part of the body.
    (Remember that we're dealing with Arabic definitions here, not English ones).


    Oh so lots of people thinking something makes it right and correct does it?
    No, it just means that I'm not the one claiming to have a good understanding of the Qur'an, I'm referring you to people who do have a good understanding of it.

    You cannot ever have a perfect understanding, you cant, its as simple as that. humans are fallible and you could be wrong.
    Well you could say that about anything really. In Chapter 112, Verse 1, the Qur'an says "Say, that Allah is one/single/unique".

    If someone comes and starts telling me that Islam is a polytheistic religion, I will refer them to this verse. Even if I don't have a perfect understanding of it, it's quite likely that the person making such a claim hasn't read this.


    Similarly, the person I was originally quoting said that Islam does not require women to cover their heads, and that it's merely cultural.

    I'm not even saying that I have a perfect understanding, and that covering one's head is definitely necessary. The only reason I referred them to that verse is because it seems to make it clear that head-coverings are not purely cultural.

    I don't need a perfect understanding to be able to do that.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    No, because the Qur'an says it must be done with a head-covering.
    This isn't an implication. It's explicit but indirect.

    The Qur'an may not actually say that you have to cover your head, but it gives a command which is impossible to carry out without covering your head.




    No, I mean that it's a part of the body.
    (Remember that we're dealing with Arabic definitions here, not English ones).




    No, it just means that I'm not the one claiming to have a good understanding of the Qur'an, I'm referring you to people who do have a good understanding of it.



    Well you could say that about anything really. In Chapter 112, Verse 1, the Qur'an says "Say, that Allah is one/single/unique".

    If someone comes and starts telling me that Islam is a polytheistic religion, I will refer them to this verse. Even if I don't have a perfect understanding of it, it's quite likely that the person making such a claim hasn't read this.


    Similarly, the person I was originally quoting said that Islam does not require women to cover their heads, and that it's merely cultural.

    I'm not even saying that I have a perfect understanding, and that covering one's head is definitely necessary. The only reason I referred them to that verse is because it seems to make it clear that head-coverings are not purely cultural.

    I don't need a perfect understanding to be able to do that.
    The quote presumes you are already wearing a headscarf since they were rather dominant in the culture at the time, would it not follow that It could quite simply be a cultural implication? and the real command is far more sensible and just refers to women keeping modest whilst covering their breasts?

    If you dont wear a headscarf in your culture, could the meaning simply not be to cover up your breasts? The quran was written at a certain time in a certain culture a culture that liked scarfs.

    If I was told by god to poke my eyes out so i couldnt watch TV, would that same rule apply to someone in an area where there isnt a single TV?

    Scholars have a good understanding, but having a good understanding does not mean they are correct, I am sure many doctors in 15th century england had a good understanding of the theory of bile It doesnt mean they were correct in their expertise.

    You could be wrong, its as simple as that, and you dont like it when people disagree with your dogmatic organised version of Islam.

    Could you be wrong about it? just answer that.
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    I love how Muslims always have to defend and justify their faiths to non Muslims and atheists like in some way they'll like/understand Islam any better or will convert.

    I hate how there's this western hegemony that everything we do is right and everything they do is wrong. It's as if there shouldn't be a difference in culture and religion and there's that has lasted for over 1400 years should be abolished for our modernity.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I love how Muslims always have to defend and justify their faiths to non Muslims and atheists like in some way they'll like/understand Islam any better or will convert.

    I hate how there's this western hegemony that everything we do is right and everything they do is wrong. It's as if there shouldn't be a difference in culture and religion and there's that has lasted for over 1400 years should be abolished for our modernity.
    What a stupid unconstructive post.

    Why should somebody born in Engalnd, in our culture be forced by peer pressure to follow cultures and religious practices that are foreign to this land? why cant people from any culture have the free choice to choose their own interpretation of culture and religion.

    I believe in freedom, if that makes me a facist or something then quite frankly I am perfectly happy with that.
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    Ever thought they're bold, confident and dignified. It's like defying the society we live in haha.

    and I AM NOT BORING!!!!!!!!!
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    (Original post by Lolabunny18)
    The only thing i dont understand about women in hijabs is that if it says in their religion that they should, then why do only some women do it? If there are muslim women that don't, then it must mean that it isn't compulsory to wear it.

    If it isn't compulsory, then why wear it in this country where people tend to discriminate (justfully) against women in hijabs?
    There are many different types of muslims, and some see certain things as more important than others. It really depends on how the person was brought up.

    But whether it's compulsory or not, it shouldn't be banned. And a lot of people who choose to wear a hijab might believe that there's no harm in them doing so. Plus, It's nowhere near as hyperbolic as a full face covering, which even I (as a muslim) fairly disagree with.

    Alright?
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    The quote presumes you are already wearing a headscarf since they were rather dominant in the culture at the time, would it not follow that It could quite simply be a cultural implication? and the real command is far more sensible and just refers to women keeping modest whilst covering their breasts?

    If you dont wear a headscarf in your culture, could the meaning simply not be to cover up your breasts? The quran was written at a certain time in a certain culture a culture that liked scarfs.
    The Qur'an isn't written for a particular group of people, at a particular time period. The Qur'an always states that it has been given to "Al-Alameen", which refers to any human at any time or place.

    The Qur'an does not ask women to simply cover their breasts, it states that a head-covering must be used to do it.

    It is not possible to obey this command without a head-covering.

    If I was told by god to poke my eyes out so i couldnt watch TV, would that same rule apply to someone in an area where there isnt a single TV?
    This is a completely different type command, and doen't work as an analogy. This is a command for which a reason has been given.
    The verse about the headscarf is not a command for which a reason has been given, it is a command for which a method has been given.


    If God commanded you to drive a car to scotland, would you say "Well he never told me to actually get into the car?"
    Of course not - because driving a car is impossible without actually being inside the car. Similarly, covering one's breasts with a head-covering is not possible unless this person actually has a head-covering.

    Scholars have a good understanding, but having a good understanding does not mean they are correct, I am sure many doctors in 15th century england had a good understanding of the theory of bile It doesnt mean they were correct in their expertise.

    You could be wrong, its as simple as that, and you dont like it when people disagree with your dogmatic organised version of Islam.

    Could you be wrong about it? just answer that.
    Yes, I could be wrong about it. But that isn't the point at all.

    The point is that someone has stated that a head-covering is not necessary in Islam, and is purely cultural. They could be wrong too. But in my opinion, they are extremely likely to be wrong - I suspect that they have not read the verse which speaks about the khimar (headscarf), but have only read verses which refer to the hijab (general modesty).

    It's not that I dislike people disagreeing with me - you have every right to disagree on the interpretation of this verse. The only point I'm making is that the original poster, who has claimed that the headscarf is not an Islamic requirement, probably needs to look again.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)



    Yes, I could be wrong about it. But that isn't the point at all.
    /Thread


    That is the point that is entirely the point. You are claiming, and have done many many times on this forum a moral authoirty which you believe is unquestionable. This is now by your own admission incorrect as you could be wrong. If somebody is a muslim and feels they dont have to wear a headscarf that is their decision and choice, and you have no better moral judgement on the matter than them.


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    If God commanded you to drive a car to scotland, would you say "Well he never told me to actually get into the car?"
    Of course not - because driving a car is impossible without actually being inside the car. Similarly, covering one's breasts with a head-covering is not possible unless this person actually has a head-covering.
    I wouldnt question that I had to go to scotland, however I wouldnt be above taking a plane if I didnt like driving.

    Just as somebody can wear whatever they damn well please if they think in the eyes of god it is modest, and fulfills the end result of what they have been told.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    What a stupid unconstructive post.

    Why should somebody born in Engalnd, in our culture be forced by peer pressure to follow cultures and religious practices that are foreign to this land? why cant people from any culture have the free choice to choose their own interpretation of culture and religion.

    I believe in freedom, if that makes me a facist or something then quite frankly I am perfectly happy with that.
    wow hit a cord there didn't i :rolleyes:

    1) No one is forcing anyone to abide by Islamic principles,values or laws. Infact when I was in Middle School, Muslims were pressured to sing hymns and Christmas carols during Morning Assembly and Christmas. I never once recall Non Muslims being asked to say the "Fataha" even during R.E by the Muslim teachers.

    2) The problem with non Muslims is that they're so condescending and dismissive of whatever point Muslims put across. It's actually quite tiring to see people like Tazarooni trying to logic with non Muslims because it will never work. Non Muslims have already come to their conclusions regarding anything to do with Islam. I.e Majority of Muslim women in Islamic countries are oppressed, Sharia Law is unbelievably horrid and draconian etc

    I didn't call you a fascist, I was simply remarking that Muslims don't need to explain and justify their faiths to anyone. All they are doing is belittling themselves and groveling to get acceptance or approval from simply irrelevant people.

    Speaking as a non Muslim it's actually quite sad when I see some Muslims try to water down or sugar coat their faith to get credence that Islam is a good faith.
 
 
 
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