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Think.. What Do You Really Think And Feel About Women Wearing Hijabs?? Watch

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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
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    That is the point that is entirely the point. You are claiming, and have done many many times on this forum a moral authoirty which you believe is unquestionable. This is now by your own admission incorrect as you could be wrong. If somebody is a muslim and feels they dont have to wear a headscarf that is their decision and choice, and you have no better moral judgement on the matter than them.
    Where have I claimed any moral authority?

    All I've done is point out that a person who claimed that the headscarf is not compulsory is not necessarly as correct as he thinks he is. I suspect that he has missed the verse and the Hadith that I quoted earlier, so I've drawn his attention to them.

    I have not asserted that he is unquestionably wrong.


    I wouldnt question that I had to go to scotland, however I wouldnt be above taking a plane if I didnt like driving.

    Just as somebody can wear whatever they damn well please if they think in the eyes of god it is modest, and fulfills the end result of what they have been told.
    But God didn't ask you to take a plane, he asked you to drive.

    You may be fulfilling a similar end result, but you still haven't obeyed the command in it's entirety, have you?
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    I think people are really ignorant when it comes to the headscarf. Due to the negative association that the beautiful media has given this country everyone continues to act like they should be in fear of Muslim women. We should not be.

    and to the people that say it is fine for Muslims to wear the headscarf in their own countries and not in Britain I really think you should stfu because Britain has done so many things to countries around the world by forming the British empire and taking over and forcing the British culture on to them so hush. and besides in the past (Elizabethan, Edwardian Victorian times) it was a fashion statement for women to cover their hair whether it be a head scarf or wig.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    wow hit a cord there didn't i :rolleyes:

    1) No one is forcing anyone to abide by Islamic principles,values or laws. Infact when I was in Middle School, Muslims were pressured to sing hymns and Christmas carols during Morning Assembly and Christmas. I never once recall Non Muslims being asked to say the "Fataha" even during R.E by the Muslim teachers.

    2) The problem with non Muslims is that they're so condescending and dismissive of whatever point Muslims put across. It's actually quite tiring to see people like Tazarooni trying to logic with non Muslims because it will never work. Non Muslims have already come to their conclusions regarding anything to do with Islam. I.e Majority of Muslim women in Islamic countries are oppressed, Sharia Law is unbelievably horrid and draconian etc

    I didn't call you a fascist, I was simply remarking that Muslims don't need to explain and justify their faiths to anyone. All they are doing is belittling themselves and groveling to get acceptance or approval from simply irrelevant people.

    Speaking as a non Muslim it's actually quite sad when I see some Muslims try to water down or sugar coat their faith to get credence that Islam is a good faith.

    1)Yes I am a massive racist :rolleyes: I was asked to cover up when I visited muslim areas and mosques in delhi i was quite happy to do so, When in ladakh at bhuddist temples I was asked to abide by a code of conduct whilst there and when not in a religious setting, I respected local customs and standards of dress, am I not allowed to ask for the same respect for the way we live our lives?

    2)Yes I am obviously demeaning and saying his religion is bad by saying that he should respect his fellow muslims views on it.

    I wasnt asking him to justify his religion, I was asking him why he has this time and many times before claimed an unquestionable moral authority over other muslims.

    Read my posts before opening your mouth and posting ****.

    I am calling for tolerance and understanding between all religious people, I want an end to dogma and the oppurtunity for people to make up their own minds without being told things like ''you arent a proper muslim if you dont follow what i tell you' If that makes me a bad person then I am proud of it and will be as bad as I can be.
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    Ideally, nobody would wear the hijab, or a veil.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    ...
    Off topic, but wanted to ask a Muslim without starting a new thread, but is it possible to be a legitimate Muslim if you only consider the Quran to be a Holy book and only obey instructions laid out in there?
    Is it only the Quran that's the unaltered, direct word of Allah?
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    I really think this is a non-issue. I really don't see what the problem with wearing a hijab is. Niqabs are different, as I'm sure many would agree, but I fail to see why hijabs are even an issue.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Where have I claimed any moral authority?

    All I've done is point out that a person who claimed that the headscarf is not compulsory is not necessarly as correct as he thinks he is. I suspect that he has missed the verse and the Hadith that I quoted earlier, so I've drawn his attention to them.

    I have not asserted that he is unquestionably wrong.




    But God didn't ask you to take a plane, he asked you to drive.

    You may be fulfilling a similar end result, but you still haven't obeyed the command in it's entirety, have you?
    All you have done is what you always do, and that is assume anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant and isnt enlightened in the way you are.

    I dont blindly follow commands for no reason, if he told me the car was very important and there was a specific reason for it, I would take a car, if not I would use the brain god gave me to figure out how to do it in a more appropriate way for me.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    wow hit a cord there didn't i :rolleyes:

    1) No one is forcing anyone to abide by Islamic principles,values or laws. Infact when I was in Middle School, Muslims were pressured to sing hymns and Christmas carols during Morning Assembly and Christmas. I never once recall Non Muslims being asked to say the "Fataha" even during R.E by the Muslim teachers.
    Er, may I be terribly daring, and propose that the school may have been Christian? Therefore, if a Muslim decides to send their children to a Christian school they must accept that there's going to be a predominant focus upon Christian worship. It'd be the same for a Christian in a Muslim school no doubt.
    2) The problem with non Muslims is that they're so condescending and dismissive of whatever point Muslims put across. It's actually quite tiring to see people like Tazarooni trying to logic with non Muslims because it will never work. Non Muslims have already come to their conclusions regarding anything to do with Islam. I.e Majority of Muslim women in Islamic countries are oppressed, Sharia Law is unbelievably horrid and draconian etc
    Please don't try and pigeon-hole all non-Muslims. Instead, address the person you're talking to specifically, don't factor me in. I hate religion, all religions, in an ideal world we'd all be secular, free from the oppressive power of religious doctrines. And Sharia Law is unbelievably horrid, there's no denying that. Any law that wants to kill homosexuals, or cut the hands off theives is evil, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    But God didn't ask you to take a plane, he asked you to drive.

    You may be fulfilling a similar end result, but you still haven't obeyed the command in it's entirety, have you?
    Sorry, I'm completely butting in here, but if the verse was 'take your car and offer a lift to everyone who needs it, when you drive to Scotland' (:dontknow:), would you see it as a commandment to own a car?
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    1)Yes I am a massive racist :rolleyes: I was asked to cover up when I visited muslim areas and mosques in delhi i was quite happy to do so, When in ladakh at bhuddist temples I was asked to abide by a code of conduct whilst there and when not in a religious setting, I respected local customs and standards of dress, am I not allowed to ask for the same respect for the way we live our lives?

    2)Yes I am obviously demeaning and saying his religion is bad by saying that he should respect his fellow muslims views on it.

    I wasnt asking him to justify his religion, I was asking him why he has this time and many times before claimed an unquestionable moral authority over other muslims.

    Read my posts before opening your mouth and posting ****.

    I am calling for tolerance and understanding between all religious people, I want an end to dogma and the oppurtunity for people to make up their own minds without being told things like ''you arent a proper muslim if you dont follow what i tell you' If that makes me a bad person then I am proud of it and will be as bad as I can be.
    :facepalm: :no:

    Why are you sensitive lol. Who brought race into this? I wasn't even specifically referring to you. I was referring to what I see all over youtube and TSR, Muslim always trying to explain and get approval of their faith.

    To your point, I don't see how Muslims are not abiding by our rules and customs. Their dress code is not considered illegal in this country or immoral so I don't know the point you're trying to make.

    If we supposedly (and luckily) live in a free society (something which Muslim countries lack) where we have the "freedom" to choose how we dress why are we trying to make others like us isn't that cultural imperialism?

    I don't see what non Muslims will get out of Muslim women not wearing the Hijab, the veil is one thing but the hijab is a step too far in my opinion.
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    Off topic, but wanted to ask a Muslim without starting a new thread, but is it possible to be a legitimate Muslim if you only consider the Quran to be a Holy book and only obey instructions laid out in there?
    Is it only the Quran that's the unaltered, direct word of Allah?
    Sorry, I don't quite understand the question

    Are you asking if there are other things besides the Qur'an which are the unaltered word of Allah?

    If so, then - Muslims are sure, without a doubt, that the Qur'an is the unaltered word of God. The Bible and the Torah may contain parts of the unaltered word of God, but there's no guarantee.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    All you have done is what you always do, and that is assume anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant and isnt enlightened in the way you are.
    It's all well and good you telling me what I assumed, but I asked you - where exactly did I say that?

    I dont blindly follow commands for no reason, if he told me the car was very important and there was a specific reason for it, I would take a car, if not I would use the brain god gave me to figure out how to do it in a more appropriate way for me.
    Exactly. And the Qur'an states (In Surah-Al-Imran) that the Qur'an itself is meant to be taken literally, and that you can't just interpret your way out of commands as you see fit.
    i.e. When God says take a car, he means take a car. It's not like he's ignorant of the existence of aeroplanes. The most appropriate manner of doing anything is the manner in which God (or the Prophet) has asked for it to be done. (For Muslims, anyway).
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    :facepalm: :no:

    Why are you sensitive lol. Who brought race into this? I wasn't even specifically referring to you. I was referring to what I see all over youtube and TSR, Muslim always trying to explain and get approval of their faith.

    To your point, I don't see how Muslims are not abiding by our rules and customs. Their dress code is not considered illegal in this country or immoral so I don't know the point you're trying to make.

    If we supposedly (and luckily) live in a free society (something which Muslim countries lack) where we have the "freedom" to choose how we dress why are we trying to make others like us isn't that cultural imperialism?

    I don't see what non Muslims will get out of Muslim women not wearing the Hijab, the veil is one thing but the hijab is a step too far in my opinion.

    You brought race into this, I didnt mention it at any point.

    In my posts I was refering to British born muslims being pressured to abide by foreign cultures when they feel it is not appropriate for them to do so.

    I have no problem with somebody choosing to wear the hijab here, I have a problem with people like tazaroni denouncing people or presuming they are ignorant and stupid for choosing not to abide by certain rules and customs.


    You seem to think that it is only western people who can be prejudiced.
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    Sorry, I'm completely butting in here, but if the verse was 'take your car and offer a lift to everyone who needs it, when you drive to Scotland' (:dontknow:), would you see it as a commandment to own a car?
    I wouldn't see it as a direct commandment to own a car, I would see it as a commandment which is impossible to fulfill unless you own a car.
    Because the verse has stated "Take your car", not someone else's car, or a different mode of transport altogether.

    Does that make sense?
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    It's funny how this has always been brought into question.

    If a few of you guys searched for an image of a nun, you will see that the nun and the hijabi are practically covering the same body parts. Yet the women with the hijab is said to be 'oppressed' yes, there are people who wear it for the wrong reasons, but in Islam god knows the reason as to why it is being worn.

    I have the utmost respect for women who wear it for the right reasons.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    It's all well and good you telling me what I assumed, but I asked you - where exactly did I say that?



    Exactly. And the Qur'an states (In Surah-Al-Imran) that the Qur'an itself is meant to be taken literally, and that you can't just interpret your way out of commands as you see fit.
    i.e. When God says take a car, he means take a car. It's not like he's ignorant of the existence of aeroplanes. The most appropriate manner of doing anything is the manner in which God (or the Prophet) has asked for it to be done. (For Muslims, anyway).

    Its meant to be taken literally now is it?

    Then I was right and it does not command you to wear a headscarf over your head, it says you must cover your bosoms with one, it says nothing about the headscarf covering your head at any point.
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    eh, to the guy whu says using your brain when given a instruction from god. you dont question the instructsion you just do it, god gave you a brain so you can compleat the task not change it/quesion it/decide whthere its moral. religions dont need you to think they need you to worship/follow. reason why im generally against the idea of religions.


    has anyone ever seen shmpoo comercials in muslim countries when they wear the Hijabs. funny.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    And the Qur'an states (In Surah-Al-Imran) that the Qur'an itself is meant to be taken literally, and that you can't just interpret your way out of commands as you see fit.
    Small point. So many people tell me that the whole point isn't to take the Qu'ran literally (quite like the Bible). If I take the Qu'ran on a whole literal level then I can only conclude that the religion is made up of maniacs (which I don't believe is the case).

    I'll refer to the verse which tells a man to beat his wife. Shall I take that literally? When I bring this up with Muslims, they say it's not supposed to be taken literally.
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    I feel scared of women wearing the Hijab. It's like they are hiding something and there not trying to adapt to our culture.

    I also HATE with a passion Muslim ladies that drive and only show the eyes. How the **** can they see? Surely the cloth would get in the way when they turn their heads for at least a second(a vital second). Unless the cloth was skin tight which it isn't.

    I almost got run over when I was on my bike, the woman saw me on the road and continued going (luckily I was quick enough) I looked back and she was just staring at me without even apoligising. I think England should follow France's example and ban them.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Small point. So many people tell me that the whole point isn't to take the Qu'ran literally (quite like the Bible). If I take the Qu'ran on a whole literal level then I can only conclude that the religion is made up of maniacs (which I don't believe is the case).

    I'll refer to the verse which tells a man to beat his wife. Shall I take that literally? When I bring this up with Muslims, they say it's not supposed to be taken literally.

    Dont worry you arent the only one amazed here, he keeps constantly changing his own opinion on this whenever it suits him to.

    I think what he means is muslims can imply and take literally when and if they please, but non muslims must only interpret things in the way that a muslim tells you to.
 
 
 
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