Anyone fed up of getting ripped off by student loans because you're middle class? Watch

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johnbrown
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#181
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#181
(Original post by Gamer99)
And how is it also mine though?
You must have been a bad son
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elsa_89
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#182
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(Original post by EpsilonZero)
That's only assuming scenario's of those like you and Nick. I'm not sure you represent every middle class family. If a student with a similar financial background to you does indeed get a lot of assistance from their guardians (as the government seems to expect), that student's degree will cost less.
Oh, hello

The cost of the degree will be the same in the sense that the tuition fees, accommodation, books etc will be the same. And since the interest rates on student loans are in line with inflation, it doesn't matter whether a student (say a working class student) paid for their degree through these loans or if a student (middle class) had their parents pay for it upfront. It will be the same - these aren't regular loans, hence the degree will cost the same.

Also, I will say again, what gives a poor student the right to an education that is mostly paid for by the taxpayer? Degrees are optional (and very useful obviously), and if you want to do one, expect to pay for it. In the same way that driving is optional but very useful, will the goverment start subsidising driving lessons now?
imomo16
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#183
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(Original post by sophyy)
That is one of the most backwards opinions I have ever heard.
In what way?

(Original post by elsa_89)
Also, I will say again, what gives a poor student the right to an education that is mostly paid for by the taxpayer? Degrees are optional (and very useful obviously), and if you want to do one, expect to pay for it. In the same way that driving is optional but very useful, will the goverment start subsidising driving lessons now?
So the only people who should be allowed degrees are those with high earning families. Right.
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MalcomNewMoney84
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#184
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I'm not "getting" pissed off by them. I WAS when I did it some time ago, and now it's just beyond me. But being entitled to the bare minimum financial help is a sick1.

Edit: Just realised your savage assumption that there'a a direct correlation between income and class in all cases. There are so many more factors to consider when identifing an individual's social class these days.
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k8t11
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#185
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#185
YES OP. thankfully I'm not the only person who feels like this.
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Nick_000
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#186
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#186
(Original post by johnbrown)
Agree with this. If you're parents don't want to give you money when you need it (and I refuse to believe that a family oon £40,000 + would be unwilling to give money to child who is desperately in need and on the verge of dropping out of university due to financial issues) then they're the ones who have got issues. Take it up with them, it's not the governments fault your parents are stingy.
Not stingy at all. Due to the nature of his business, he has a lot of cash tied up in stocks, shares and various companies. He needs to reinvest a lot as well.

He pays more tax than most so why shouldn't he get something back from this Govt? Also, why should any parent be forced to support their 22 year old son? He has done a great job and I can't blame him for letting up when I turned 16. He was working full time when he was 16.
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Feral Beast
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#187
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(Original post by LurkerintheDark)
What, so a lad from a single-parent family, who's mam earns 18K a year should have the same amount of help as someone whose dad earns over 50K? or 70K? or !00k?

EERRRRRMMMMM NO!

Wow some people here really are as thick as two short planks.
What if the father was unwilling to pay?

What do you not understand?
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The Referee
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#188
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(Original post by ------Amy)
It is not unfair. People who get the minimum loan, if it isn't enough, their parents will be able to help out. Wheras people from low-income families will not have this advantage.
My mum is a single parent, a healthcare assistant, and I have a twin sister who is also in university, so without the highest loan, we'd be screwed basically. You have your parents to fall back on if you are in desperate help - we do not.
I haven't gone through the whole thread, so someone else may have responded to this.

The problem is, not all families above the cut off point can afford to help (especially if they have large financial commitments/several children (possibly 2 or more children at uni). In addition, there is a significant number of parents who refuse to help out - in some cases even in a desperate emergency!

Those from the middle classes are generally not so bothered about the grants and bursaries, but to be penalised on the loan component doesn't make sense!
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Nick_000
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#189
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(Original post by LurkerintheDark)
What, so a lad from a single-parent family, who's mam earns 18K a year should have the same amount of help as someone whose dad earns over 50K? or 70K? or !00k?

EERRRRRMMMMM NO!

Wow some people here really are as thick as two short planks.
I'm sorry. I didn't realise I earned my dad's salary.

What you are effectively saying is that you are more entitled to a degree because you come from a less wealthy background. Positive discrimination really does have people brainwashed.
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johnbrown
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#190
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(Original post by Nick_000)
Not stingy at all. Due to the nature of his business, he has a lot of cash tied up in stocks, shares and various companies. He needs to reinvest a lot as well.

He pays more tax than most so why shouldn't he get something back from this Govt? Also, why should any parent be forced to support their 22 year old son? He has done a great job and I can't blame him for letting up when I turned 16. He was working full time when he was 16.
But if you've got cash tied up the government take that into account? There was a whole section on the student finance thing and my parents even had to send off forms to prove how much they had invested and how much they have to pay each month. If your dads business is struggling I'm pretty sure the government would take that into account if you informed them of it.

Both my parents were forced to leave home at 16 and work as well but they don't want me to have to do the same thing which is why they are happy for me to go to university knowing that there is a possibility that they will have to partly fund me through it. I'll try to do it on my own but I know they're there if I need them.
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Thomasmc135
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#191
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(Original post by LurkerintheDark)
What, so a lad from a single-parent family, who's mam earns 18K a year should have the same amount of help as someone whose dad earns over 50K? or 70K? or !00k?

EERRRRRMMMMM NO!

Wow some people here really are as thick as two short planks.
Wow, you just described my situation perfectly, not the 50k bit but the beginning bit.
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imomo16
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(Original post by Nick_000)
Not stingy at all. Due to the nature of his business, he has a lot of cash tied up in stocks, shares and various companies. He needs to reinvest a lot as well.

He pays more tax than most so why shouldn't he get something back from this Govt? Also, why should any parent be forced to support their 22 year old son? He has done a great job and I can't blame him for letting up when I turned 16. He was working full time when he was 16.
I appreciate that, but poorer people have to work to support their family too, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at.
The fact remains that he has got the money, where some people simply don't! And don't tell me that if they had simply worked harder etc. then they could be earning that much as well, because it simply isn't true.
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mipegg
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#193
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(Original post by johnbrown)
People in council accomodation still have the pay rent, albeit it's lower. It's not easy at all living on benefits, especially if you have children.
I never said it was and in all honesty thats a different argument.
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faber niger
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#194
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(Original post by elsa_89)
And people are happy having their taxes spent on subsidising optional higher education for other people's kids? I think grants should be scrapped to fund a scheme where students can borrow more money but receive no grant. That way the same degree will cost the same to a student from any background. That's fairness.
Not so, someone from a rich background may well conceivably get the fees paid for them by parents, thereby having no loan and leaving the poor folks with loans in relative poverty.
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Feral Beast
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#195
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I'm starting to feel that state dependency is deeply ingrained within our generation. This is now an entitlement culture. No sense of work and reward, but pure and simple entitlement.
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elsa_89
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#196
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(Original post by imomo16)
So the only people who should be allowed degrees are those with high earning families. Right.
No, that's not what I'm saying. Everyone is allowed to do a degree, hence my argument that everyone should be entitled to high student loans (i.e high enough to cover fees, accommodation and other costs associated with being a uni student). What I wholeheartedly disagree with is people getting grants for going to university. The argument for grants is that the students who receive them need them since the loan isn't enough to live on. I say scrap them and increase the loans. At least that way the taxpayer will have all the money that goes towards university funding paid back, not just the money in the form of loans.
Nick_000
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#197
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#197
(Original post by imomo16)
I appreciate that, but poorer people have to work to support their family too, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at.
The fact remains that he has got the money, where some people simply don't! And don't tell me that if they had simply worked harder etc. then they could be earning that much as well, because it simply isn't true.
Why? My dad is from a working class background. He has no academic background to boast of. He went into a full apprenticeship when he was 16 and worked his way up the ladder the hard way through sheer graft. He had as much of an opportunity as many others.
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HiBear
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#198
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in sweden everyone gets about 130pounds a month until age 16. then if you continue studying high school and have less than 20% absence you still get the 130 a month..
if you study everyone is eligible for the maximum loans. it's your choice if you need them or not. and everyone gets about 300 a month that we dont have to give back.

that is how it should be.

socialism is good
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SpamBa
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#199
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I do think it is unfair how easy it is to cheat the system; one of my friends gets loads of grants because her mother is single and a teacher, however she has rich relatives on her mother's side who have paid for her to attend a fantastic school, get a car, go on exotic holidays etc. I contrast, my parents are married and have a good income, but I do not have the benefit of being supported by an extended family; my parents are the only people who will give me any financial support. And since they chose to spend THEIR income (not someone else's) on my education there are not the resources to fully support me through university.

Problem is, it is done on parental income on the presumption that that is where your money comes from and that two sets of parents with the same income will give their child the exact same level of financial support. This is clearly not the case, especially if one family had to support four children and the other only one. Also, if your parents are divorced you need only declare one income although both may agree to support you.

------------

Slightly different, but does the question about whether or not your parents attended university annoy anyone else? I think you should be able to indicate whther one or both of your parents attended, and whether they did so after school or, like my dad, got degrees as mature students.
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Nick_000
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#200
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(Original post by Feral Beast)
I'm starting to feel that state dependency is deeply ingrained within our generation. This is now an entitlement culture. No sense of work and reward, but pure and simple entitlement.
Welcome to the "me, me, me" generation created through many years of an inneffective Government.
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