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General Election 2010 - Who would you vote for? Watch

  • View Poll Results: General Election 2010 - Who would you vote for?
    Conservative
    28.17%
    Labour
    20.43%
    Liberal Democrat
    23.22%
    Green
    6.81%
    UKIP
    5.26%
    BNP
    3.72%
    Libertarian
    5.26%
    Respect
    0.62%
    SNP
    1.86%
    DUP
    0.31%
    Sinn Fein
    1.24%
    Plaid Cymru
    0.31%
    SDLP
    0.31%
    UUP
    0
    0%
    Health Concern
    0.31%
    Independant/Other
    2.17%

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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    You are aware that there are other forms of taxation, right?

    But I actually agree that the libertarian party is too quick to talk about lowering taxes, cut spending etc and I believe this is why we achieved just 36 votes in Norwich. Nobody wants to hear that spending is being cut.

    Instead we need to be putting emphasis on opposing the war, the EU and the 'big brother' state - we need to be voicing our opinions on legalising drugs and free trade etc, I think that would obtain more than 36 votes personally.
    Oddly enough, I am aware of such.
    But Income tax is one of the main elements of the national budget.
    Mmmm...the libertarian party wouldn't be very popular in times like these.
    Sure, yeah -I actually agree with many of the non economical policies of the libertarian party. However, as far as taxation goes - perhaps it should be done progressively on income; or at least, that is how I see it working.
    Haha! But I dont see the libertarian Party winning over the alternative Tory Party for sometime. But hey, to my disgust UKIP are doing okay; must be a sign?
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    (Original post by Stricof)
    Oddly enough, I am aware of such.
    But Income tax is one of the main elements of the national budget.
    Mmmm...the libertarian party wouldn't be very popular in times like these.
    Sure, yeah -I actually agree with many of the non economical policies of the libertarian party. However, as far as taxation goes - perhaps it should be done progressively on income; or at least, that is how I see it working.
    Haha! But I dont see the libertarian Party winning over the alternative Tory Party for sometime. But hey, to my disgust UKIP are doing okay; must be a sign?
    The fact UKIP are doing well is actually a sign that right-wing economics is popular. Leaving the EU, abolishing inheritance tax. These are policies of UKIP and LPUK alike, so if UKIP support is rising that is support for LPUK rising, in principle, also. It's just that they're choosing them over us. The same could be said to a lesser extent of the conservatives. Economically its a shift 'in our direction' and I expect many of those voters are being pragmatic and would actually support LPUK in theory.

    But that is exactly why we must focus on the social issues, to show those tory and UKIP voters why they ought to choose LPUK instead. We're the only right-wing party that can offer social liberalism. There IS a big market for that because the consistency is that it involves smaller state on all issues.

    Regarding income tax, I am personally inclined to agree with you that we need to do that more gradually. LPUK is an extremist party and because of that our policies must be implemented slowly to ensure that society can adjust appropiately.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    The fact UKIP are doing well is actually a sign that right-wing economics is popular. Leaving the EU, abolishing inheritance tax. These are policies of UKIP and LPUK alike, so if UKIP support is rising that is support for LPUK rising, in principle, also. It's just that they're choosing them over us. The same could be said to a lesser extent of the conservatives. Economically its a shift 'in our direction' and I expect many of those voters are being pragmatic and would actually support LPUK in theory.

    But that is exactly why we must focus on the social issues, to show those tory and UKIP voters why they ought to choose LPUK instead. We're the only right-wing party that can offer social liberalism. There IS a big market for that because the consistency is that it involves smaller state on all issues.

    Regarding income tax, I am personally inclined to agree with you that we need to do that more gradually. LPUK is an extremist party and because of that our policies must be implemented slowly to ensure that society can adjust appropiately.
    See, I would be personally be inclined to support libertarianism if it wasn't so right wing in this country; because libertarianism attributes to both left and right.
    Back to party politics though - Why would people vote for the Libertarian Party if they have alternatives that are working as well, or better in terms of popularity and power?
    - The UKIP party appear to be the authoratarian brother to the libertarians and that itch that just won't go away from the Tories.
    - The conservative party, well, I put them as a sobered version of the above.
    Besides, apart from being less authoritative,I don't actually think that LPUK has much going for it to be honest. It has most of it's policies covered and, lets be fair, the right wing attracts war for the worst reasons. Iraq perhaps?.
    The idea of "a wide church" is daunting...And LPUK was only founded last year....
    Once again, I shall point out that i like the Libertarian Party's policies on increased civil liberties etc...the part of libertarianism I actually like. But the LPUK represents something more than libertarianism. :p: Which is unfortunate.
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    (Original post by Stricof)
    See, I would be personally be inclined to support libertarianism if it wasn't so right wing in this country; because libertarianism attributes to both left and right.
    Back to party politics though - Why would people vote for the Libertarian Party if they have alternatives that are working as well, or better in terms of popularity and power?
    - The UKIP party appear to be the authoratarian brother to the libertarians and that itch that just won't go away from the Tories.
    - The conservative party, well, I put them as a sobered version of the above.
    Besides, apart from being less authoritative,I don't actually think that LPUK has much going for it to be honest. It has most of it's policies covered and, lets be fair, the right wing attracts war for the worst reasons. Iraq perhaps?.
    The idea of "a wide church" is daunting...And LPUK was only founded last year....
    Once again, I shall point out that i like the Libertarian Party's policies on increased civil liberties etc...the part of libertarianism I actually like. But the LPUK represents something more than libertarianism. :p: Which is unfortunate.
    What does LPUK represent that is more than libertarianism? The typical libertarian does believe in economic liberalism, i.e. freedom of the individual from the state, and that involved a move away from nationalisation which is viewed as the government forcing people through coercion to spent money where they don't want it spent. It's a part of being libertarian, not an addition to it.

    Just like free trade should be adopted because the government has no right to impose restrictions on trade. It's upto the public to choose freely what goods and servises they want, the government should have no higher authority over them to make that choice. That is right-wing economic thinking which even socialists may be inclined to agree with. I just happen to apply it additionally to servises and industries in the UK.

    Why vote LPUK when tories/UKIP are established and working well? That is a good question and one the party must address. Our Norwich strategy was to talk about the debt in this country, and to mention that we'd cut spending. In our leaflet we discussed lowering taxes, cutting waste in health and reforms to education as three of the four issues we discussed (the last issue being anti 'big brother' state).

    I have been highly critical of this on the LPUK forums, because you're right. Based on the above information we're not worth voting for over UKIP and tories, and just look at the results. Tories won, UKIP had a bigger percentage increase in votes than any other party and we got 0.1% of the votes. This is exactly because we were seen as being UKIP but not established.

    If the leaflets had mentioned being opposed to war, being in favour of legalising drugs ... by this point it's liberal democrats who are prickling their ears rather than UKIP sympathisers! And indeed there are libertarian liberal democrats, who LPUK must appeal to. Then we mention leaving the EU and embracing free markets and free trade. From that everybody then understands that we're UKIP economically and lib dems (but more extreme) socially - and I believe some lib dems prefer that to the actual lib dem party, and some UKIP voters prefer that to UKIP. There is a market for LPUK, we just didn't appeal to it appropiately.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    What does LPUK represent that is more than libertarianism?
    Arguably the most Libertarian of all parties for now but it would only appeal to the right side of the spectrum. I mean you got influentials like Chomsky and H. Steiner who represent such an ideology and are respected by young and old, from both the left and right libertarian outlook.

    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    It's upto the public to choose freely what goods and servises they want, the government should have no higher authority over them to make that choice. .
    Restrictions? You mean non protectionism? Well granted, if you'd like foreign monopoly (already have much of that) to take over everything, fine; although, as a result of that, it's a economical paradox to leaving the EU in my opinion.

    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    Why vote LPUK when tories/UKIP are established and working well? That is a good question and one the party must address. Our Norwich strategy was to talk about the debt in this country, and to mention that we'd cut spending. In our leaflet we discussed lowering taxes, cutting waste in health and reforms to education as three of the four issues we discussed (the last issue being anti 'big brother' state).
    Perhaps a non economical approach at first is more effective; it lays out the strong niche points of the party.

    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I have been highly critical of this on the LPUK forums, because you're right. Based on the above information we're not worth voting for over UKIP and tories, and just look at the results. Tories won, UKIP had a bigger percentage increase in votes than any other party and we got 0.1% of the votes. This is exactly because we were seen as being UKIP but not established.
    What is the counter argument - I am not a member of such a forum of course . As I said, the UK libertarian Party could focus on it's social policy attributes first; like UKIP focuses on it's social attribute policy - Immigration.
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    (Original post by Stricof)
    Arguably the most Libertarian of all parties for now but it would only appeal to the right side of the spectrum. I mean you got influentials like Chomsky and H. Steiner who represent such an ideology and are respected by young and old, from both the left and right libertarian outlook.
    A lot of members, myself included, are requesting that we begin to appeal more to left-libertarians as well as the right-libertarians. Though I don't want to compromise on free-market economic policy, I just want to emphasise social liberalism a lot more.

    Restrictions? You mean non protectionism? Well granted, if you'd like foreign monopoly (already have much of that) to take over everything, fine; although, as a result of that, it's a economical paradox to leaving the EU in my opinion.
    I think free trade is a better policy than protectionism, but if you want to take the BNP stance on the issue, that's fine.

    What is the counter argument - I am not a member of such a forum of course . As I said, the UK libertarian Party could focus on it's social policy attributes first; like UKIP focuses on it's social attribute policy - Immigration.
    I haven't met an effective counter-argument. A lot of people simply said "we need to emphasise both", which is obviously true. So why our leaflet in Norwich made 7 points and 6 of those were economic ones, is beyond me. (And the one social point was one UKIP/tory members would agree with anyway, it was that we need privacy from CCTV.)

    I have listed 5 policies we should emphasise most in our leaflet in my opinion and immigration was one of those actually, because that shows how we're different to UKIP. Ideologically, we believe in free movement of peoples. (Though that's not actually our policy as it's not practical.)
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    Lib Dem, or possibly Labour.
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    I'm laughing so much you think LPUK will ever amount to anything.

    'cut taxes, more individual freedom' -stuff many people like to hear

    'no more nhs, no more free schools, no more BBC, no more welfare state' -stuff that means you will never, EVER get anywhere near power. You might as well say you want to install the great jujubird of marrakesh as head of state and invade the moon, you would get more votes.
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    (Original post by scanningforlifeforms)
    I'm laughing so much you think LPUK will ever amount to anything.

    'cut taxes, more individual freedom' -stuff many people like to hear

    'no more nhs, no more free schools, no more BBC, no more welfare state' -stuff that means you will never, EVER get anywhere near power. You might as well say you want to install the great jujubird of marrakesh as head of state and invade the moon, you would get more votes.
    I agree we need to stop hammering on about schools and education, and BBC simply isn't important enough to mention (though I don't see why it'd be that unpopular) .... but welfare could actually be popular, especially in the south on England which is where LPUK is strongest by far.

    I keep telling people over and over that we need to discuss civil liberties, opposing the war, opposing the EU etc - but they keep defending the sections on health and education taking precedence over those.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I agree we need to stop hammering on about schools and education, and BBC simply isn't important enough to mention (though I don't see why it'd be that unpopular) .... but welfare could actually be popular, especially in the south on England which is where LPUK is strongest by far.

    I keep telling people over and over that we need to discuss civil liberties, opposing the war, opposing the EU etc - but they keep defending the sections on health and education taking precedence over those.
    Problem is, the two things that affect people the most is Health and Education... always has and always will.
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    The cons and labour are pretty similar to me in policies and in how crap they are so i'll be going for the Lib Dems more because of that. Their policies are mostly aligned with my own views as well.

    I think the Tories will win it and not much will be different apart from the fact that the wealthier in society would benefit slightly more, but it's is a necessary kick up the arse that labour needs to get its act together.

    Although, i'm not super wealthy, economically Tory policies would be best for me and my family but i can't bring myself to vote for them based on that.
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    How are we similar? The Conservatives are to the right of the spectrum, and the Labour are to the left.
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    (Original post by Afcwimbledon2)
    How are we similar? The Conservatives are to the right of the spectrum, and the Labour are to the left.
    Did the past 12 years not happen for you? Seriously, New Labour, abandonment of Clause Four, matching Tory tax and spend plans, keeping income tax low (until recently) being a tax haven for the super rich, privatising out bits of the welfare state to private companies under PFI.

    Do you not read newspapers? Saying that Labour are left wing does not make it so.
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    I read newspapers, but only my local.. because I have the INTERNET.
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    Current poll results would lead too:

    Tory: 242 seats
    Labour: 264 seats
    Lib Dem: 112 seats (despite having 3.75% more of the vote than Labour!)
    Others: 14 seats

    Labour would need 60 seats to get a hung parliament.
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    Comparison time:

    Libertarian votes:

    TSR: 4.9%
    Norwich North: 0.1%

    Wow.
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    (Original post by Just Another Student)
    Current poll results would lead too:

    Tory: 242 seats
    Labour: 264 seats
    Lib Dem: 112 seats (despite having 3.75% more of the vote than Labour!)
    Others: 14 seats

    Labour would need 60 seats to get a hung parliament.
    How the freaking hell is the Conservatives Losing.

    Its gained Norwich North already, it is a cert that Ipswich will switch, that means East Anglia gone to the Conservatives, London will not switch, the South will start to go blue. Its just the North East.

    This gives the Torys a 58 seat majority.

    and

    This gives the Torys a 98 seat majority.
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    (Original post by Afcwimbledon2)
    How the freaking hell is the Conservatives Losing.

    Its gained Norwich North already, it is a cert that Ipswich will switch, that means East Anglia gone to the Conservatives, London will not switch, the South will start to go blue. Its just the North East.

    This gives the Torys a 58 seat majority.

    and

    This gives the Torys a 98 seat majority.
    Using FPTP on the totals on TSR. Those you've linked estimate higher %s for the Tories than they've got in this poll.
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    Labour or Lib Dem.
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    Using FPTP on the totals on TSR. Those you've linked estimate higher %s for the Tories than they've got in this poll.
    ok... thanks for telling me Drogue

    *decends into stupid world*
 
 
 
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