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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Of course, but implying sending children down the mines and having a low life expectancy was a fault of British society is factually incorrect.

    Sending children down the mines was a necessary reaction to poverty, unlike today, where such families would rather steal from their neighbours or deal drugs.

    Life expectancy increases because of factors changing over time, like medicine , irrespective of society.
    Advances in medicine and access to those advances are entirely dependent on an economy providing prosperity to put a medical structure in place.

    Sending children down mines was the fault of british society, it was the fault of a very powerful ruling class exploiting those below, and not providing for them despite becoming richer and greater as time went on, it wasnt untill social changes like influence of the new trade unions, activism, the rise of socialist principles, and the revelation that such ridiculous inequality should be challenged that things started to change, it was a social problem in every way, the social inequality led to economic neccessity and hence children were forced to work.

    If you think that social and economic problems are distinct then quite frankly you are an idiot who needs to read a bit more and open his mouth less.

    (Original post by road)
    It's useless trying to open the eyes of the Britons.They are so brainwashed by the media that nothing could change their mind, not even this economy disaster.BNP are called racist by the media so they must be racist, this country deserves its decline
    Yes people not agreeing with you actually does mean they are brainwashed, it could never be the fact that the BNP are just facist criminal idiots with half formed ideas that nobody likes.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Advances in medicine and access to those advances are entirely dependent on an economy providing prosperity to put a medical structure in place.
    .
    Yes,what's your point? Increased life expectancy is a result of medical advances amongst other things, and a lack of development in this area would be because of little economic growth, not a weaker British society.

    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Sending children down mines was the fault of british society, it was the fault of a very powerful ruling class exploiting those below, and not providing for them despite becoming richer and greater as time went on, it wasnt untill social changes like influence of the new trade unions, activism, the rise of socialist principles, and the revelation that such ridiculous inequality should be challenged that things started to change, it was a social problem in every way, the social inequality led to economic neccessity and hence children were forced to work.
    .
    Yes, but my point still stands that when faced with economic problems, families would rather involve their young and work longer hours than steal from their neighbours and deal drugs. This fact is more indicative of British society than of say, those above exploiting those below, as this is an element present all over the world, especially at that time.
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Yes,what's your point? Increased life expectancy is a result of medical advances amongst other things, and a lack of development in this area would be because of little economic growth, not a weaker British society.



    Yes, but my point still stands that when faced with economic problems, families would rather involve their young and work longer hours than steal from their neighbours and deal drugs. This fact is more indicative of British society than of say, those above exploiting those below, as this is an element present all over the world, especially at that time.
    Are you trying to say that we whites are the only people in the world that resort to good honest labour when things get bad or something?

    Because honestly I have no idea what you are trying to say anymore.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Are you trying to say that we whites are the only people in the world that resort to good honest labour when things get bad or something?

    Because honestly I have no idea what you are trying to say anymore.
    You attempted to discredit my implication that British society was better in the past. I discredited these ideas and stand by my original point.
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    You attempted to discredit my implication that British society was better in the past. I discredited these ideas and stand by my original point.

    You discredited me by mouthing off about issues that you clearly know absolutely nothing about?

    I mean for gods sake you dont even recognise the symbiosis between social and economic issues.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    You discredited me by mouthing off about issues that you clearly know absolutely nothing about?

    I mean for gods sake you dont even recognise the symbiosis between social and economic issues.
    Address the points I made as such,then.

    I do recognise the symbiosis, however it doesn't hold much weight when talking about sending children down the mines, as such exploitation was not unique to Britain at the time and merely reflecting a "people above exploiting people below" attitude that was present throughout the world.

    Far more reflective of British society at the time was the willingness to work rather than descend into criminal behaviour.
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Address the points I made as such,then.

    I do recognise the symbiosis, however it doesn't hold much weight when talking about sending children down the mines, as such exploitation was not unique to Britain at the time and merely reflecting a "people above exploiting people below" attitude that was present throughout the world.

    Far more reflective of British society at the time was the willingness to work rather than descend into criminal behaviour.
    Criminal behvaiour was rife, Why do you think they started to form organised public police forces at the time? Do you have any idea about how commonplace smuggling was for instance and the incredibly corrupt and violent way it was dealt with. Crime was so prevelent that massive numbers were shipped away to penal colonies and hanging was common for most crimes even pickpocketing. Riots and violent protests were commonplace during the 18th and 19th century. White criminals were sent away to be slaves at one point, that along with the fact that children were bought and sold.

    You need to pick up a history book, rather than a BNP piece of propaganda.

    You are the sort of person that claims all non BNP supporters are brainwashed, but you are so unbelievably suckered into the notion that our streets are the most dangerous in the world and that going outside is 'not as safe as back in my day', you have taken up the media fear mongering and sensationalism incredibly, it is funny tbh.
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Criminal behvaiour was rife, Why do you think they started to form organised public police forces at the time? Do you have any idea about how commonplace smuggling was for instance and the incredibly corrupt and violent way it was dealt with. Crime was so prevelent that massive numbers were shipped away to penal colonies and hanging was common for most crimes even pickpocketing. Riots and violent protests were commonplace during the 18th and 19th century. White criminals were sent away to be slaves at one point, that along with the fact that children were bought and sold.
    Criminality in the form of violence in protest was against a ruling elite exploiting their people, so if anything that further proves the resolve of previous British society aswell, even alongside the presence of small scale crime which is inevitably going to grow to an extent as a result of economic problems.

    Nonetheless,how do you explain British society in it's present state when you also think there is no overbearing economic problems to justify it?
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Criminality in the form of violence in protest was against a ruling elite exploiting their people, so if anything that further proves the resolve of previous British society aswell, even alongside the presence of small scale crime which is inevitably going to grow to an extent as a result of economic problems.

    Nonetheless,how do you explain British society in it's present state when you also think there is no overbearing economic problems to justify it?

    Protest was only one segment, there was plenty of greed and crime for personal gains as I mentioned.

    Please explain to me what is wrong with British society, becuase imo its actually pretty great, I would like to know what these massive problems you seem to think we have are?
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Protest was only one segment, there was plenty of greed and crime for personal gains as I mentioned.
    Indeed, but in the absence of socialism as you mentioned, a lot of it,such as pick pocketing, took place as a result of a robbing from the rich giving to the poor mentality rather than just greed and malice as you would suggest.

    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Please explain to me what is wrong with British society, becuase imo its actually pretty great, I would like to know what these massive problems you seem to think we have are?
    The quote I provided a page ago :
    Every element that sustained prior forms of British and English life is declining or has dipped down. Marriage in the family is in turmoil, and hardly anyone is marrying. Procreation amongst our own group is down. Crime and violence is up by every register. Vandalism,social misbehavior and mild to evident chaos is semi permanent- and people who live on estates have to deal with it 24/7. Areas in our town and cities are semi-segregated.
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Every element that sustained prior forms of British and English life is declining or has dipped down. Marriage in the family is in turmoil, and hardly anyone is marrying. Procreation amongst our own group is down. Crime and violence is up by every register. Vandalism,social misbehavior and mild to evident chaos is semi permanent- and people who live on estates have to deal with it 24/7. Areas in our town and cities are semi-segregated
    Marriage is a practice which is seeing a lull yes, but What are the BNP going to do about that? force young people to get married?

    Procreation is down, but after a massive expansion during the baby boomer era that is not surprising in any way, and in what way is that bad in a nation that has twice as many people as it can naturally support.

    Crime is up? can I have the source for that?

    Yes the UK is chaos, absolute chaos, by any standards it is worse than all countries in the world.....in fact Most places in the UK are worse than Helmand province.
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    Oooh I wish work hasn't been so long, thanks for holding up the side Aeolus! Time to respond :cool:

    Good for you, but international law states they must go to the nearest safe country. Hence, we should only ever be taking asylum seekers from Ireland or France- crossing dozens of safe countries to reach soft touch Britain is illegal as well as immoral.
    The law sounds reasonable, though I would like you to link me to proof of its' existence. I stand by that as one of the most liberal, powerful and best nations (yes I am patriotic, White and a member one of of the most traditional British families you can find) we should be duty bound to provide asylum to those who need it, I mean I agree that it SHOULD be the nearest safe country, but if things are just as bad in such a country, or it is one that is clearly right wing and has a similar mindset to the one supporters such as yourself have, is it any wonder they should come here?

    The primary purpose of a government is to look our for the interests of it's people. A far better option than immigration is improving the educational system at home alongside encouraging an increased birthrate.
    Do you have a grasp of basic Economic theory? Restriction on Immigration (as thought of another way people are a type of good, they are a natural resource after all) to the extent you propose is a form of Protectionsim (another BNP Policy that would come about from us cutting away from the EU) and as anyone who has a basic knowledge of Economics and Economic History knows Protectionism is bad for everyone, and leads to fall in standards of living, WHICH IN THE END is what our Government should be tryig to increase!And in case you didn't know, hat is improved in three ways, increasing utilisation of resources (land labour and captial, up to around 80-90%), improvements in technology (which improves the amount we can get from each resource) or by increasing trade (and this comes about due to other countries specialising)

    Thanks for your question. The 'vengeful' factor can possibly come with regards to two things. First, is the behaviour of certain radical Muslims, in reaction to Western involvement in the Middle East, and second, is the embedded 'chip on shoulder'-type moral that may tell certain ethnic minorities to seek gain in reaction to Imperialism and slavery. As I said, it only takes a few extremists.
    I have to admit, I was flabbergasted you came up with a seemingly logical reply, and hadn't risen to the bait, well done! However, one flaw, do you truly believe cultures are incapable or forgiveness? Do you believe that rather than atoning or the sins of our ancestors in oppressing other nations, we should continue to oppress them?! I can fully understand Western involvement in the Middle East, as well as the resentment it causes, but tolerance and equality is the best way of releasing this hatred, not giving their right wing extremists justification!
    Think about it, your idea is combat extremism with extremism and oppression!

    Originally Posted by Aeolus
    Plus, arent you an advocate of racial segregation?

    No. But it's a fact of life. I have nothing against individuals who adapt to Western culture, lifestyle, values and customs, who contribute to Western society. Nevertheless, if you look at the collective, such "integration" is impossible
    This is probably against the rules, but I'm sorry, that is complete ********, you can't pick one argument then change instantly to a contradictory one! Voluntas you've made similar points about integration, you seem to be of the opinion that immigration leads to a "dilution" of culture, looked at one way, yes , yes it does, but it's meaningless to think of it that way, think of it more-so as Evolution. For example, you cannot conceive as 2British Culture" as being one unified set of traditions anyway! It is something that has always evolved with immigration and the free exchange of ideas, for example, the rise to the prominence of the media, cars, television, curry wine, are all imports from other nations. Historically there has never been what can be regarded as one centralised "British" culture, we are the land of multiculturalism, a land that has been invaded several times, each brining new things to this melting pot of ideas and strength. Why do you think the Industrial Revolution, the rise of the British Empire, would have occurred if not for increases in trade, learning and some relaxation on totalitarian laws of the day?


    The situation is paradoxical. As culture is relative to economic status, it simply would not occur.
    How the hell can you justify this? China at current is almost devoid of culture, and America has a culture of consumerism and stolen Old-world ideas, neither are what I would call particularly good examples of culture, oh and what d you know! They're the number one and two Economies in the world!

    Every element that sustained prior forms of British and English life is declining or has dipped down. Marriage in the family is in turmoil, and hardly anyone is marrying. Procreation amongst our own group is down. Crime and violence is up by every register. Vandalism,social misbehavior and mild to evident chaos is semi permanent- and people who live on estates have to deal with it 24/7. Areas in our town and cities are semi-segregated
    Marriage is on the decline because as an institution it's flaws and inequalities are becoming apparent, liberalism has led to a rise in people getting divorced from unhappy relationships, which in my opinion is a good thing, I would imagine there would be a direct correlation between this and a fall in domestic violence. Procreation amongst all devolved nations is on the fall and developing nations are set to face a similar situation ( the population of the world is predicted to cap at around 9 illion by 2050), this is not at all a bad thing, in a world with very scarce resources and an enviroment we've nearly irrecoverable destroyed, a smaller population will lead to a better way of life for all of us, and allow for a a better self-sustainability if Protectionism is truly what you desire.

    Apologies for the wall of text, I think my quotes may not have worked, so I'll try to fix them, I know I've missed some points, but I felt Aeolus had answered them pretty well, and I've wrote enough for now I feel!
    I look forward to some responses gentlemen.
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Far more reflective of British society at the time was the willingness to work rather than descend into criminal behaviour.

    So how do you explain the mass of highwaymen, pirates, smugglers and prostitutes during the 19th century? Surely these individuals are no better than those in the present day who "deal drugs and stuff"?
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Indeed, but in the absence of socialism as you mentioned, a lot of it,such as pick pocketing, took place as a result of a robbing from the rich giving to the poor mentality rather than just greed and malice as you would suggest.
    :

    I am not sure if anybody ever told you this and i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but pre-industrial Britain did not actually resemble Disneys Robin Hood.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    I am not sure if anybody ever told you this and i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but pre-industrial Britain did not actually resemble Disneys Robin Hood.
    Haha.

    That kind of feeling was present though.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    So how do you explain the mass of highwaymen, pirates, smugglers and prostitutes during the 19th century? Surely these individuals are no better than those in the present day who "deal drugs and stuff"?
    Most of what you listed doesn't compare to modern social problems,except from highwaymen and perhaps prostitutes to a lesser extent.

    How do you explain current social problems in the light of your feeling that today is the best society to live in?
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    (Original post by Darkness and Mist)
    Marriage is a practice which is seeing a lull yes, but What are the BNP going to do about that? force young people to get married?

    Procreation is down, but after a massive expansion during the baby boomer era that is not surprising in any way, and in what way is that bad in a nation that has twice as many people as it can naturally support.

    Crime is up? can I have the source for that?

    Yes the UK is chaos, absolute chaos, by any standards it is worse than all countries in the world.....in fact Most places are worse than Helmand province.
    To encourage marriage, financial incentives shall be implemented and family values encouraged.

    Procreation being down is bad because it proves that population rises are solely because of immigrant and immigrant descended peoples. The birthrate of native Europeans is frankly pathetic in comparison to most Muslim immigrants arriving here.

    Violent crime : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html

    Just because you most likely live in some sheltered area as of yet free from "enrichment", that doesn't mean that the rest of the country is.
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Most of what you listed doesn't compare to modern social problems,except from highwaymen and perhaps prostitutes to a lesser extent.

    How do you explain current social problems in the light of your feeling that today is the best society to live in?

    You are living in a dreamworld. Yes there is crime but it is nothing compared to what went on in Britain during the 19th century, you seem to have this idilic romantic robin hood-esque view. Look at how uncommon murder is now compared to back then, there are gangs of children running around yes, but if you actually compared the present day gangs of children to those from the 18th and 19th centuries i think you will be surprised.

    The fact that it is now safe to travel across the country is proof enough of how much the country has improved.


    Plus, what do you propose as a solution to the problem of drug related crime and drug dealers. I personally would legalise most drugs, but what would be your BNP stance on this?
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    To encourage marriage, financial incentives shall be implemented and family values encouraged.

    Procreation being down is bad because it proves that population rises are solely because of immigrant and immigrant descended peoples. The birthrate of native Europeans is frankly pathetic in comparison to most Muslim immigrants arriving here.

    Violent crime : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html

    Just because you most likely live in some sheltered area as of yet free from "enrichment", that doesn't mean that the rest of the country is.
    :rofl2: You are going to quote the Mail on crime statistics? The kind of sensationalist trash that believes Harry Potter encourages witchcraft :rofl:

    Her are the official figures on crime from the Home Office.

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdf...sb1109vol1.pdf

    And please do not start accusing people of living sheltered lives when it is clearly you who hasn't left his mothers basement for 3 years because you believe what the BNP website says and think that Modern day Britain is some kind of Apocalyptic wasteland. I live in one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the country a city which proves your sensationalist BNP stereotypes wrong every day.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)

    And please do not start accusing people of living sheltered lives when it is clearly you who hasn't left his mothers basement for 3 years because you believe what the BNP website says and think that Modern day Britain is some kind of Apocalyptic wasteland. I live in one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the country a city which proves your sensationalist BNP stereotypes wrong every day.
    That's the thing, even when confronted by white British people who disagree with them or say that they are living fine with other races, they are immediately explained away by saying that they're agents of some Marxist conspiracy or something. It's crazy how much they are ignoring reality (and ironic how they criticize others for doing it) and seem intent upon painting Britain as a shattered society in the face of so much public outrage.
 
 
 
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