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You still gain significant strength on a bodypart split watch

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    So why recommend every noob starting strength when their goals are entirely physique based?

    For example I never did starting strength and still my lifts went from like 40kg argos weight 1/4 squat to 130kg mega deep squat, 30kg argos deadlifts to 170kg deadlift, 10lb dumbell presses to 60kg for afew reps, benching nothing to 80kg for afew reps.

    You can still learn technique and gain strength without having to squat 3x a week.

    Infact I think on bodypart splits since each bodypart is worked out to it's full potential, your tolerence for volume increases at an insane pace.

    If you just did a bodypart split with compounds at 5ish reps, isolatory exercises at higher rep range, you will gain strength and signifcant size. You are working every type of muscle fibre at the capacity it is designed to work at.

    However, people might gain abit of weight using starting strength and add some strength, their physiques tend not to change that dramatically.

    So for a noob who wants to pull some naughty birds (as I read in another thread), starting strength isn't the be all and end all at the beginning of your lifting career.

    /thread
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    I'd guess that the people you have seen fail to change their physique are teens who were modifying the program, modifying the diet recommendations, and then blaming Rip when their modifications don't work. I don't know which is more effective and I don't think anyone does, but if I recommend SS or WS4SB I understand it well enough that I can answer questions on it. I don't know if it's useful for pulling naughty birds.
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    I'll agree that when I used to split up body parts I had a much more "ripped" men's health cover model look, the only problem was, I was like 10 stone lolcakes.

    Now I do the sort of "full body" stuff that people describe, and have upped my diet, I have put more weight and strength on but don't look as lean. Tbh you can call it defeatist but I know I'll never look jacked and there will always be people ten a penny that look more aesthetically pleasing than me, even in the population that don't lift, and that was sort of depressing haha. So nowadays all I care about is getting real high numbers and not really caring about bodyweight, or physique, in fact even better if I get massive numbers and stay lightweight forever, because there's something so satisfying about weighing 70-80kg and squatting more than the 15 stone "rugby boy" bench n curl monkeys at any given gym.

    So yeah I'd say my goals in the gym went from "wanna be jacked" to "just wanna be big" to "**** it I'm an ectomorph I'll never be big I'll just keep squatting until I'm putting up awesome numbers for a 75kg BW ecto"

    And the starting strength/squat m0ar/full body stuff fits that goal better than splits do, for me anyway
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    tis true.

    you can squats once a week and improve, and you can do your curls and whatnot.

    the key Q is - would you progress as fast as say SS or whatever? maybe not

    but, a lot of people strength is a secondary.
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    (Original post by Transatlanticdrawl_)
    I'll agree that when I used to split up body parts I had a much more "ripped" men's health cover model look, the only problem was, I was like 10 stone lolcakes.

    Now I do the sort of "full body" stuff that people describe, and have upped my diet, I have put more weight and strength on but don't look as lean. Tbh you can call it defeatist but I know I'll never look jacked and there will always be people ten a penny that look more aesthetically pleasing than me, even in the population that don't lift, and that was sort of depressing haha. So nowadays all I care about is getting real high numbers and not really caring about bodyweight, or physique, in fact even better if I get massive numbers and stay lightweight forever, because there's something so satisfying about weighing 70-80kg and squatting more than the 15 stone "rugby boy" bench n curl monkeys at any given gym.

    So yeah I'd say my goals in the gym went from "wanna be jacked" to "just wanna be big" to "**** it I'm an ectomorph I'll never be big I'll just keep squatting until I'm putting up awesome numbers for a 75kg BW ecto"

    And the starting strength/squat m0ar/full body stuff fits that goal better than splits do, for me anyway
    i second this motion.

    IMO i think you should milk your ability to do FBWO as much as you can, because eventually you'll have to move onto a split. you make pretty good progress with FBWO, and it's also a nice way to slide into exercise. get to know technique and all. once you stop recovering so fast, then move onto a split, and see your progress jump again.
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    (Original post by FluxD)
    So why recommend every noob starting strength when their goals are entirely physique based?
    I never understood this either. Perhaps because it is a very simple program to follow. Often people modify it because it does not give them the results they seek when they follow it as they should. SS is good for gaining strength as a beginner, but it can become taxing on the CNS (squatting heavy 3 times a week), the volume and excercise variety is limited and the program does not work nearly as well with frequent cardio. The intensity can be very high though.
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    SS is recommend for newbies because it is a superior programme for newbies. As a newbie your prime concern must be strength/getting those numbers up. You can take the long road with some high volume body part split, which generally aren't very good routines for the vast majority of the training populace, if you want, or you could get those numbers up as quick as possible which will result in awesome size gains as well. My uni gym is full of guys who weight between 10 and 12 stone who don't look like they have added even one planck mass of lean muscle. There are a few big guys as well and, surprise surprise, they shift a ton of weight in the main exercises and their derivatives. I don't know their exact workouts but from the exercises I see them doing on a given day I will guesstimate that upper/lowers, push/pulls, full bodies and push/pull/legs are popular.

    I've never understood why people only want to work a muscle once per week either.

    "The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours." = Bryan Haycock

    If you were doing a full body three times a week then you'd have 156 growth cycles per year. Now once/if that no longer works out for the trainee he can sacrifice some frequency for recover and train a muscle group every five days. This would mean he'd only have 104 growth cycles per year ... but he has to sacrifice some frequency for recovery as the workload he needs to do is too much to recover from in 48 hours. With bodypart splits you have much less growth cycles per year. This really shows when you look at the average 5-day-per-week bodypart split trainee.
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    (Original post by exppex)
    The volume and excercise variety is limited and the program does not work nearly as well with frequent cardio. The intensity can be very high though.
    Why doesn't this program work with cardio? Surely if your eating enough it won't have an effect.
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    Not really relevant but to save the 'new thread' button from getting a bashing could a fitness regular confirm something for me?:

    Do FBWOs help more with getting rid of fat? I try to do 3 a week and each time i end up sweating a fair bit more than when i done splits and feel more physically tired.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    SS is recommend for newbies because it is a superior programme for newbies. As a newbie your prime concern must be strength/getting those numbers up. You can take the long road with some high volume body part split, which generally aren't very good routines for the vast majority of the training populace, if you want, or you could get those numbers up as quick as possible which will result in awesome size gains as well. My uni gym is full of guys who weight between 10 and 12 stone who don't look like they have added even one planck mass of lean muscle. There are a few big guys as well and, surprise surprise, they shift a ton of weight in the main exercises and their derivatives. I don't know their exact workouts but from the exercises I see them doing on a given day I will guesstimate that upper/lowers, push/pulls, full bodies and push/pull/legs are popular.
    i'm not going argue that body part splits are the optimal routine for noobs. but, to be fair, in a fluxd style routine you're still doing heavy compounds. the 10 and 12 stone dudes dont grow primarily because they don't eat enough and/or are just doing pec flies and curlz.
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    (Original post by lol_wut)
    i'm not going argue that body part splits are the optimal routine for noobs. but, to be fair, in a fluxd style routine you're still doing heavy compounds. the 10 and 12 stone dudes dont grow primarily because they don't eat enough and/or are just doing pec flies and curlz.
    people get the wrong idea of a "split"

    I train and the big bodybuilders train in the same manner and have done from day 1.

    and it's like what FluxD wrote

    1st two exercises do heavy compounds for that part
    then 1-2 more iso based work

    Why avoid doing curls, etc..?

    Yes, don't do just them but don't swing the other way totally and remove them otherwise you are setting yourself up for a fall and your smaller parts, will lag behind and they'll just play catch up.
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    Taking the science aside on a personal level for me (I do splits 4 times a week, sometimes a half hour 5th day if needed), I find that I struggle to maintain regime and discipline for 3 days, that's a poor excuse but its just something I've had to deal with. Going regularly physchologically makes me feel better and also eat better. I'm going 5 times a week at the moment and feel great, although from my readings around the subject, I'm probably minimising my gains.

    I've had spells of doing just full bodys and doing them thoroughly a few times a week and then doing cardio inbetween, but it just doesn't feel as good for me.

    The splits I'm doing at the moment seem good but the quotes from smack etc. make me reconsider the point once more!
 
 
 
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