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    (Original post by YoSuis)
    Some may have an easier time gaining work experience due to family contacts, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for others to get experience...when you write to hospitals and GPs they don't write back asking about your economic background

    In quite a lot of cases 16 year olds from these background (working class non-university educated parents) don't even know which A-Levels they need to take, let alone the fact they need to get work experience and how to go about it.

    None of their friends want to be doctors, they don't know any professionals on a social basis (not just doctors, any professionals). Their access to careers advice is limited, their teachers don't know what to tell them, connexions is mainly targeted at students with low academic ability. For a large part they're alone.
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    (Original post by BJack)
    Not being a medical student (nor am I a prospective medical student, for that matter), my knowledge of getting work experience in the medical sector is purely anecdotal, but I would have thought that it was the more senior staff that chose whom to take on.



    Taking them on, hiring them,... whatever you want to call it.
    Almost all hospitals have a work-experience co-ordinator. They alone decide who gets the limited number of placements available.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    Closed grammar schools, removing scholarships, introducing tuition fees, uncapping tuition fees, doctor's pay cuts, doctor's accom cuts...

    http://www.hospitaldr.co.uk/blogs/bm...-up-profession
    An interesting article. Thanks.

    I largely agree with the article. £40,000+ to go through medical school with little help is obviously going to deter those who are from a lower socioeconomic group.
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    I do think medicine favours the middle class.

    I'm not even talking about grades and so on. Admissions policies mostly involve things like the UKCAT, BMAT, interviews and so on. Expensive things. I know there are med schools that don't use the UKCAT or BMAT, but there isn't four (as far as I know) so every applicant will need to sit at least one aptitude test to give themselves a fair chance at applying. They aren't cheap and if you really are from a very disadvantaged background, the £50 or so for the UKCAT might not be all that easy to find. Interviews are not cheap, especially if you live outside London. There's only one med school in my country and it costs a significant amount of money to travel to over the water to go to interviews, particularly as most interview dates are given out about two weeks in advance when flights cost a lot. My parents must have spent about £300 on flights for me. The same goes for England - it's about £100 to go from Durham to London two weeks in advance as a random example.

    There's also things that are harder to measure like aspirations and careers advice. In my own school (which was a grammar with mainly lower middle class people), everyone aspired to a course in Queens or Ulster. Didn't matter what course, just as long as you got your degree, got pissed and hung about with your friends from school. The school pushed medicine on people with more than 5 A*s at GCSE (Queen's entrance requirement) but anyone with less wasn't allowed to apply. I know that's hardly as bad as a sink school but it's still a pretty negative environment to be in, especially as so many people do meet the entry requirements. As for the comp down the road...I don't think anyone in the recent past has gone on to do medicine from there, despite it having a grammar school stream.
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    (Original post by ttx)
    In quite a lot of cases 16 year olds from these background (working class non-university educated parents) don't even know which A-Levels they need to take, let alone the fact they need to get work experience and how to go about it.

    None of their friends want to be doctors, they don't know any professionals on a social basis (not just doctors, any professionals). Their access to careers advice is limited, their teachers don't know what to tell them, connexions is mainly targeted at students with low academic ability. For a large part they're alone.
    Well, when I was choosing my highers I looked at university prospectuses and they said which subjects I had to take, and that I would need work experience to stand a chance, and that I would have to take the UKCAT....just seemed to me like the sensible thing to do:p:

    Admittedly I do know a few professionals on a social basis though I don't see what that has to do with it:confused:....Like I said, knowing a few doctors will make it easier, but if you don't it's not the end of the world

    My teachers didn't have a clue, and neither did the career folk, and it didn't stop any of the applicants at my school from putting a decent application together...and i've never heard of connexions
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    (Original post by becca2389)
    I do think medicine favours the middle class.

    I'm not even talking about grades and so on. Admissions policies mostly involve things like the UKCAT, BMAT, interviews and so on. Expensive things. I know there are med schools that don't use the UKCAT or BMAT, but there isn't four (as far as I know) so every applicant will need to sit at least one aptitude test to give themselves a fair chance at applying. They aren't cheap and if you really are from a very disadvantaged background, the £50 or so for the UKCAT might not be all that easy to find. Interviews are not cheap, especially if you live outside London. There's only one med school in my country and it costs a significant amount of money to travel to over the water to go to interviews, particularly as most interview dates are given out about two weeks in advance when flights cost a lot. My parents must have spent about £300 on flights for me. The same goes for England - it's about £100 to go from Durham to London two weeks in advance as a random example.
    I think with regards to the entrance exams there is some assisstance out there. If you're family is earning under a certain amount of money (can't remember the exact figures) then you don't have to pay to sit the UKCAT. I think the UKCAT is £75? Which is a big help to those with little money.

    I do agree with you however regarding the transport. I've used trains to get to concerts after booking tickets a week or two in advance and they are very expensive to book. As the 32 medical schools are quite dispersed then train tickets could range from £5 if you're lucky to £100 if the medical school is on the other side of the country. Perhaps if you're from a poor background, the medical school or the goverment or whoever should pay for your train ticket?
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    Clearly someone with money has a huge advantage over someone with none grades-wise, but that's true of any subject.

    There are a few points specific to medicine which may contribute, but almost all can't be tackled without tackling inequality, and lord knows that will never happen.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Clearly someone with money has a huge advantage over someone with none grades-wise, but that's true of any subject.

    There are a few points specific to medicine which may contribute, but almost all can't be tackled without tackling inequality, and lord knows that will never happen.
    I wouldn't say a 'huge' advantage. An advantage nonetheless though. There's a huge number of students who have the necessary grades to apply for medical school and who are at state schools.

    And as for tackling inequality, like you, I also don't see that happening.
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    (Original post by YoSuis)
    Well, when I was choosing my highers I looked at university prospectuses and they said which subjects I had to take, and that I would need work experience to stand a chance, and that I would have to take the UKCAT....just seemed to me like the sensible thing to do:p:
    Most students don't. Many students haven't even heard of university prospectuses. It's hard to grasp the position these students are in unless you talk to them, there's so much implicit knowledge you take for granted which these students don't have.

    Admittedly I do know a few professionals on a social basis though I don't see what that has to do with it:confused:
    See above comment about knowledge.

    My teachers didn't have a clue, and neither did the career folk, and it didn't stop any of the applicants at my school from putting a decent application together...and i've never heard of connexions
    Connexions is the main careers services for schools in England.

    But as you indicated from your comment you were at a school where other people were applying as well. Imagine you're at a school where going to uni is unusual. Imagine there was no-one who could help/advise you.
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    (Original post by T kay)
    I wouldn't say a 'huge' advantage. An advantage nonetheless though. There's a huge number of students who have the necessary grades to apply for medical school and who are at state schools.

    And as for tackling inequality, like you, I also don't see that happening.
    'Middle class' doesn't exactly imply anything about state-school/private school. It does imply something about the area you will live in and so the school you will go to, however. By all means some people might make it but when a school has something like 20% 5A*-Cs at GCSE, there is little hope for those people (extreme example but the trend will hold true).
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    'Middle class' doesn't exactly imply anything about state-school/private school. It does imply something about the area you will live in and so the school you will go to, however. By all means some people might make it but when a school has something like 20% 5A*-Cs at GCSE, there is little hope for those people (extreme example but the trend will hold true).
    Doesn't it? Where I'm from:

    Middle-class: Private schools
    Rest of us: State

    But yes, the trend is true. The richer you are the more likely you are to do well. I was just reminding everyone that a poor or average school won't stop you from entering medical school and that they are many examples which prove that.
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    (Original post by T kay)
    Middle-class: Private schools
    Rest of us: State
    I guess its down to personal interpretation but i think most people wouldn't make it as exclusive a group as that. It would probably be based on the type of employment one has as Registrar General had it (i.e. manual/non-manual work), but this is all just pedantry now.
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    If by 'middle class' you're talking about people who are educated by the state then the answer may be yes because for someone to shine in a 'less advantageous' environment may indicate a very strong work ethic.
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    (Original post by ttx)
    Most students don't. Many students haven't even heard of university prospectuses. It's hard to grasp the position these students are in unless you talk to them, there's so much implicit knowledge you take for granted which these students don't have.



    See above comment about knowledge.
    Ah I see what you mean, but surely that's a problem related to university applications as a whole and not just applications to medical school?

    (Original post by ttx)

    Connexions is the main careers services for schools in England.
    Oh right

    (Original post by ttx)
    But as you indicated from your comment you were at a school where other people were applying as well. Imagine you're at a school where going to uni is unusual. Imagine there was no-one who could help/advise you.
    My point was that in my school there wasn't anybody to help/advise properly about medical school...they just assumed it was like applying to other courses and couldn't really give any helpful advice other than how to fill out ucas forms and stuff
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    I think its more of the case the middle class favour the medical degree
    Haha good one
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    The UCAS system generally favours the middle classes (a la predicted grades, references and extra help with personal statements). At least the medical schools require interviews I suppose, helps a little.

    Whole system needs a massive overhaul though...
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    Hmmm. While I would disagree that your class has any influence on a medical school's decision for an offer, I probably agree that up to that point the middle class are favoured, through things like better careers advice, interview preparation, better contacts for work experience etc.

    Personally I don't know how effective these are, as I never had any, but there's definitely differences between classes there.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    You thought wrong, it's more likely to be a human resources admin monkey.
    This.

    If you know the volunteer services coordinator at your hospital (:ninja:) then you'll invariably get bumped to the top of the list.
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    Lmao no way does it. I went to an ok comp if my parents had been on the dole pissing away their lives id have got an offer of BBB like some of the people in my school. However as my parents both work i got an AAA offer which I unfortuanly missed.

    There is alot of help out there for the lower social groups to get into medicine it just take some looking which depends on the person not what class they are from. As for work experaince in my experiance knowing doctors doesnt help as even when they agree to let you shadow them Human resource have to ok it. Therefore knowing an admin cliric would be more usefull
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    So?
 
 
 
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