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why do most british people totally disrespect our soldiers? watch

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    (Original post by dn013)
    One is murder the other is 'just' homicide - with the potential outcome of saving lives. For example if the US, Britain and Russia had not defeated Nazi Germany many, many more people would have died than the death toll of WW2. Therefore killing to save another life is surely morally acceptable?
    In my eyes, all deliberate killing is equal, regardless of motive.
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    (Original post by cpj1987)
    I don't believe there should BE 'rules of war' though. I don't believe killing is acceptable under ANY circumstance, and don't see why some 'rules' made by certain people should suddenly make killing ok.
    The Nazis too were following 'rules' - I'm not saying the two are comparable in terms of their level, but the outcome in both cases is 'killing under order'.
    Yet you're willing to live your life based on "moral" rules? Rules also decided and written by certain people?

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    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    Yet you're willing to live your life based on "moral" rules? Rules also decided and written by certain people?

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    How do you mean? Which rules are those?
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    (Original post by cpj1987)
    In my eyes, all deliberate killing is equal, regardless of motive.
    So then you would agree that WW2 was the right course of action because fewer people died fighting the Nazis than if the Nazis had just continued to occupy Europe and persecute most of the peoples they controlled. And to be honest, I believe that killing a Nazi soldier firing a machine gun on D day is a bit different to a Nazi guard guiding my 4 year old relative (at the time he was 4 years old) into Theresienstadt concentration cam, where he starved to death.

    edit - IMO if you cannot see a difference between the two then there is something wrong. Sorry about that its just my personal opinion.
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    (Original post by cpj1987)
    How do you mean? Which rules are those?
    Ten Commandments, maybe?

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    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    Ten Commandments, maybe?

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    I'm not religious.
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    OK, I'll leave this be, you're an all-out nutjob, in my opinion. You want the fruits of my labour, but condemn the manner in which you recieve it. You may not respect me, I couldn't care less, but I sure as hell don't respect you. As I see it, if you're not with us then you can join those standing infront of us.

    /unsubscribing this thread.

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    (Original post by princessnavi22)
    The Americans on the other hand have been brainwashed by their previously poor excuse of a leader that there was a need to go to war.
    Not true.

    There are some Americans who still believe the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were justified. Then there are some who believed in their leader at first, but have since realised the so-called evidence produced in support of the wars was anything but, and now support withdrawal of the troops. Then there are Americans who never supported either war and would have the troops home in an instant if they could.

    However one thing remains true among pretty much all Americans, regardless of their opinions on the wars, and that is that they support their troops. My mom and her family never supported either war, but they will show their support to the US troops (we have a yellow ribbon tied on the tree out in our front yard), because they know the troops are only doing what they're ordered to do by the powers that be.

    It's not the armed forces who decide to go to war, it's Governments, and the American people understand that and therefore they get behind their troops.
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    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    OK, I'll leave this be, you're an all-out nutjob, in my opinion. You want the fruits of my labour, but condemn the manner in which you recieve it. You may not respect me, I couldn't care less, but I sure as hell don't respect you. As I see it, if you're not with us then you can join those standing infront of us.

    /unsubscribing this thread.

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    to my pleasent surprise, i'd say pretty confidently that the majority of people who have posted on this thread would have a million times more respect for you than for that television producing, bitter, arrogant, repulsive blob.

    It's not just the soldier thing....her opinions across the board are just totally ridiculous
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    (Original post by dn013)
    War is fought by the laws stated in the Geneva Convention. Almost every order given in Afghanistan and Iraq has followed the Geneva Convention - therefore those orders are not immoral.
    That doesn't follow. The actions considered unacceptable in the Geneva Convention may not cover all of the actions that are considered morally unacceptable within some moral code. for example, if one considers wars acceptable just if they are acceptable under just war theory, and a soldier came to the conclusion that the Iraq War was not permitted under just war theory, then they would be morally obliged to not participate in the Iraq War.

    (Original post by dn013)
    In contrast the defendants at Nuremberg killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians through mass executions (by gun and gas) and by false imprisonment that killed people through starvation and disease. Nothing the British army or the American army has done in Iraq or Afghanistan is even comparable to the scale and immorality of the holocaust - therefore talking about 'the nuremberg defense' is completely false and an insult to Holocaust victims and modern soldiers alike.
    I wasn't comparing the two...the defence you are talking about is called the nuremberg defence simply because it was most famously used there. the question is still applicable in the case of Afghanistan/Iraq because these are wars in which people are being killed and injured, and so participation in them is a serious moral question.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    That doesn't follow. The actions considered unacceptable in the Geneva Convention may not cover all of the actions that are considered morally unacceptable within some moral code. for example, if one considers wars acceptable just if they are acceptable under just war theory, and a soldier came to the conclusion that the Iraq War was not permitted under just war theory, then they would be morally obliged to not participate in the Iraq War.

    I wasn't comparing the two...the defence you are talking about is called the nuremberg defence simply because it was most famously used there. the question is still applicable in the case of Afghanistan/Iraq because these are wars in which people are being killed and injured, and so participation in them is a serious moral question.
    But I am saying that the moral question is limited because most of the acts of both the American and British armies are within the Geneva Convention - the nuremberg defence is more focused on situations where the act one is ordered to do is illegal by international law.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    it makes me embarrassed to be from here.

    in america they get this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck3zw6NUF60

    and huge respect from the public. in this country we get a handful of people actually can be assed to go and stand on the side of the road for 10 minutes and a load of disrespectful idiots who couldnt give 2 *****. the americans are, imo, a far better nation because of this
    Britons disrespect British soldiers and the BNP
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    This is, sadly, very true. There's definitely something in the air over here. PErsonally, i've always admired the USA a hell of a lot. Sure, it had some bad bits in its history...but let's face it....they do everything better than we do. ALso, they are the only superpower, were, are, will be (look at china, brazil, india :puke:) who actually upholds the citizen's liberties. what a country

    tbh, i think it's the optimistic nature of americans versus the pessimism of europeans. in america...the can do attitude makes anything possible....it presumes people to be good natured and inclusive until proven otherwise....because of this people believe they can and should subscibe to a higher national identity cos they think it will work. in europe on the other hand....we presume it cant work because patriotism is presumed to be inherently racist...we have this white guilt thing over here where we all feel like we are responsible for what our fore bearers did centuries ago...because of this we tell ourselves (or the govt tells us) patriotism is wrong....the minorities are therefore taught it is wrong and that is why it ostracises them
    I've been on this forum for a few years and you are the first non-american I have seen who understands the difference between patriotism and nationalism. I love the spirit of entrepreneurship, the principles in the constitution and the declaration of independence. But loving these things about America doesn't mean I'm going to go invade Canada :rolleyes:

    If you are interested in reading more about US culture, you may find this article interesting: http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html
    I find his observations about the US to be pretty accurate for the most part
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    (Original post by road)
    Britons disrespect British soldiers and the BNP
    People have a reason to disrespect the BNP; the same cannot be said for British soldiers.
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    (Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
    OK, I'll leave this be, you're an all-out nutjob, in my opinion. You want the fruits of my labour, but condemn the manner in which you recieve it. You may not respect me, I couldn't care less, but I sure as hell don't respect you. As I see it, if you're not with us then you can join those standing infront of us.

    /unsubscribing this thread.

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    (Original post by .ACS.)
    People have a reason to disrespect the BNP; the same cannot be said for British soldiers.
    Of course it can, everyone has a different reason for disrespecting things otherwise everoyne would disrespect the BNP and it wouldn't exist.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    Wow. NO ****.


    ANyway, WHen they signed up i'm pretty sure most soldiersa do to protect their country....after all, if you look back historically most wars were fought in the name of defending back home.

    but what are you actually defending? The nation state which is just a social construct. something made up by humanity these divides between people do not really exists except in our minds. The military is just a tool to enforce these divides.

    Therefore we are being asked to respect people who serve in an organization whose aim is to enforce divides between humanity which are all constructed in peoples minds.

    WW2 was a bit different as they were fighting to protect a way of life which was the right way of living. Whereas now troops are just fighting to protect this idea of a nation state this is not a fight for our way of life and we shouldnt try and force ours on others.
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    I must say as much as I admire the way American go out of the way to show respect and admiration for their troops it can go a bit too far.

    Take Seaworld in America which I'm sure many on here will have visited at some point, before their main Orca shows (which I adored) they have a special mention to the services and invite military or ex-military to stand up and then they are applauded, shown up on the big screens etc.
    But why should they get special mention? What is it to do with the orca show? And why not applaud and salute the other great people who keep the county running the doctors, police, nurse, firemen to name but a few.

    I don't know anyone in Britain who doesn't give the forces the respect they deserve, as they do for the doctors, firemen etc. We just don't go out of our way to show.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    erm, how many awful actions have been done by soldiers who have said "I was just following orders?"
    That's war. Awful actions..that ultimately TRY to work towards peace. Even though some don't see it. And it doesn't always work.
    It does not change my stance on war though, I'm still pro.
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    I respect them. If a country were to invade ours, it would be these soldiers who would be willing to fight in order to keep us safe, despite the fact others lives would be lost. (We are selfish creatures, I and I'm sure most other people, would sooner see a stranger die, than one of our family members).
 
 
 
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