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Plan for tuition fees to go up to a possible £7,000 a year? Watch

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    (Original post by Quady)
    How is it impossible?

    You pay the same in advance so its a one way bet.

    Why do you expect a market in fees this time round when it didn't happen last time?

    You expect on the of the most popular unis (leeds) to only put their prices up by 700 quid?

    Why would polys reduce their prices by over 3k?
    Well, not impossible exactly, but imagine a family with an income of 20k annually, they have a child that's bright enough to go to Oxbridge, but with such steep fees I think they would try to send the child to a more modest university - even with tuition fee loans. After 3 years it would be up to 21k, and then there's the maintenance loan too adding a further 9k or whatever, I couldn't see a family like this going for it.

    My numbers were simple estimates based roughly proportional to their current ranking, I admit that it's not a perfect system of doing it and it would probably pan out slightly different to that. But I still see a 'tier' forming if this goes ahead.

    I have no idea why polys would start charging nothing at all, but the link says they will. I suppose the government will be subsidising them to charge less - because they know that poorer families will have nowhere to go. The exact wording is:

    "Both parties are studying an overhaul of the system under which top universities would be allowed to lift fees above the current legal limit of £3,225, while many former polytechnics would offer no-frills degrees for free."

    The fact that it mentions simply universities being 'allowed' to lift fees above the limit makes me think that some universities may charge more than others (however, yes, Leeds is more popular than I implied), and the bit about polys being free speaks for itself - however the article says nothing more about the free bit.
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    Wow, way to utterly screw over the middle class. And I mean UTTERLY. If your parents combined incoming is between 35k and 50k you are in some serious trouble.
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    (Original post by Easywellyes)
    Dumb. Most would charge the full £7,000 - students wouldn't say "oh I'd rather go to Durham than Oxford to save £500."

    + even dumber that you seem to rank Durham as the 3rd best uni in the country.
    First part = probably true

    Second part = It was a rushed line-up, and each individual line itself is not in order, LSE, Imperial and UCL all clearly rank higher I agree, St Andrews too, but it won't be under this system ... unless you are English and planning to study there.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Well, not impossible exactly, but imagine a family with an income of 20k annually, they have a child that's bright enough to go to Oxbridge, but with such steep fees I think they would try to send the child to a more modest university - even with tuition fee loans. After 3 years it would be up to 21k, and then there's the maintenance loan too adding a further 9k or whatever, I couldn't see a family like this going for it.

    My numbers were simple estimates based roughly proportional to their current ranking, I admit that it's not a perfect system of doing it and it would probably pan out slightly different to that. But I still see a 'tier' forming if this goes ahead.

    I have no idea why polys would start charging nothing at all, but the link says they will. I suppose the government will be subsidising them to charge less - because they know that poorer families will have nowhere to go. The exact wording is:

    "Both parties are studying an overhaul of the system under which top universities would be allowed to lift fees above the current legal limit of £3,225, while many former polytechnics would offer no-frills degrees for free."

    The fact that it mentions simply universities being 'allowed' to lift fees above the limit makes me think that some universities may charge more than others (however, yes, Leeds is more popular than I implied), and the bit about polys being free speaks for itself - however the article says nothing more about the free bit.
    Hopefully someone bright enough to go to oxbridge would point out it makes no difference which they go to as they don't have to pay off the debt even if they somehow manage to end up with a sucky job.

    As I asked - why don't they already? Exactly the same was said before topup fees when they were 'allowed' to raise fees. Nobody has ever suggested ex polys getting extra subsidies - thats certainly not the philosophy of the new research grants or sports grants either.
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    (Original post by n0c0ntr0l)
    Wow, way to utterly screw over the middle class. And I mean UTTERLY. If your parents combined incoming is between 35k and 50k you are in some serious trouble.
    How? The upfront cost doesn't change.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How? The upfront cost doesn't change.
    Good point. And On second thoughts, I'm not going to worry. This does not affect me.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Hopefully someone bright enough to go to oxbridge would point out it makes no difference which they go to as they don't have to pay off the debt even if they somehow manage to end up with a sucky job.

    As I asked - why don't they already? Exactly the same was said before topup fees when they were 'allowed' to raise fees. Nobody has ever suggested ex polys getting extra subsidies - thats certainly not the philosophy of the new research grants or sports grants either.
    Apparently the legal limit is currently £3,225, they can't charge more than that :dontknow:

    I didn't say they had suggested extra subsidies before ... but they seem to be hinting at it now, I can't see how else the polys can afford to charge nothing - and it says if this proposal goes ahead then they definitely will?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How? The upfront cost doesn't change.
    But there isn't an upfront cost either way, they are still planning to charge you £7,000. Whether you pay it the day you start or five years after you leave, it's still a lot of money! 3.5k more! Adding up to 21k by the time you leave, just because you are paying it direct debit later in life doesn't mean that by then you will have the money to give away, it's still a drain on your income.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Apparently the legal limit is currently £3,225, they can't charge more than that :dontknow:

    I didn't say they had suggested extra subsidies before ... but they seem to be hinting at it now, I can't see how else the polys can afford to charge nothing - and it says if this proposal goes ahead then they definitely will?
    I said in the first post I was refering to, that they can charge differential rates now so why don't they? That was said to be the idea of top up fees to create a market.

    The media said places like thames valley definitely would before top up fees...

    Since the rise hasn't been agreed, the amount of any rise hasn't been agreed I don't quite see how it has been agreed that there would be extra subsidies...
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Just because you are paying it later in life doesn't mean that by then you will have the money to give away.
    By definition you do, otherwise it wont get paid off.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I said in the first post I was refering to, that they can charge differential rates now so why don't they? That was said to be the idea of top up fees to create a market.

    The media said places like thames valley definitely would before top up fees...

    Since the rise hasn't been agreed, the amount of any rise hasn't been agreed I don't quite see how it has been agreed that there would be extra subsidies...

    Ok, I'm sure I speak for both of us when I say that we wish to earn as much possible in life. You are right that it hasn't been finalised, but apparently a possible figure is a rise of anything from £2,000 to £15,000 annually. This means that worst case scenario, you could end up with a student loan of 50k, so you could say goodbye to 2 of your bedrooms and a bathroom from your future house (joke). I won't pretend that I know the system inside out, but it's anyone that earns above £16-15,000 that begins to have to pay the loan back? Or a figure somewhere near there? Someone like that is hardly a millionaire, and with probably a family to provide for (in most cases) you want all the money you can get, it's hardly overreacting to be concerned that the debt has just been doubled, it's a serious drain on your future income, you are going to earn several thousand less in your life! What's good about that? You may argue that through your entire life it's only a small percentage of your life's earnings, but why not throw a £1 coin out of your window every 2 weeks then? That would be too.

    I'm sure you will jump on me for saying this, but I wouldn't be surprised if this move isn't followed by an increase on the percentage of your wage that's taken monthly (just a guess) to make sure that they get more of their loan back.

    You sound as if you really aren't bothered either way, why give away an extra 15 grand or so that you don't need to? I'm sure you would complain if income tax went up 5%.

    Just out of interest:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=978226

    Are you saying that these people have no need to be worried? Because from 2013 students are getting it doubled.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    so you could say goodbye to 2 of your bedrooms and a bathroom from your future house (joke).

    but it's anyone that earns above £16-15,000 that begins to have to pay the loan back? Or a figure somewhere near there? Someone like that is hardly a millionaire, and with probably a family to provide for (in most cases)

    it's a serious drain on your future income, you are going to earn several thousand less in your life!

    You sound as if you really aren't bothered either way, why give away an extra 15 grand or so that you don't need to? I'm sure you would complain if income tax went up 5%.
    I know it was a joke, but house prices will lower if there isn't the income to support them.

    Yes 15k, so if you're on 16k then you'd pay back 90 quid a year. I don't think that would break someones bank. It would be their own fault for getting into uni and getting a rubbish job...

    I'd agree the % should increase, but I don't think it would as its political suicide.

    The point about this is that the people who choose to do surf science have to pay for it. I wouldn't like my income tax going up. I certainly wouldnt if i didnt get any immediate benefit.

    Going back to people on 15-16k, without fees retail assistants would have to pay more tax in order for people more capable than them to go to uni, drink beer and become their managers. Its not like the removal of fees helps 'the little guy'.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Just out of interest:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=978226

    Are you saying that these people have no need to be worried? Because from 2013 students are getting it doubled.
    Yes actually I would to an extent.

    I would say in life people pre '97 are in a better position than those post '97, those pre '03 are in a better position than those after '03 and those before the next increase will be in a better position than those after.

    They also have no need to be worried because if they are on a 16k wage it doesnt matter if the debt is 4k or 40k it wont get paid off.
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    I'd go to a high fee uni, emigrate after graduation and never repay the student loan.
    Labour can go **** themselves, if they can't afford to subsidise places they should make less places not loads of expensive ones.
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    (Original post by shrep)
    I'd go to a high fee uni, emigrate after graduation and never repay the student loan.
    Labour can go **** themselves, if they can't afford to subsidise places they should make less places not loads of expensive ones.
    this
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Ok, I'm sure I speak for both of us when I say that we wish to earn as much possible in life. You are right that it hasn't been finalised, but apparently a possible figure is a rise of anything from £2,000 to £15,000 annually. This means that worst case scenario, you could end up with a student loan of 50k, so you could say goodbye to 2 of your bedrooms and a bathroom from your future house (joke). I won't pretend that I know the system inside out, but it's anyone that earns above £16-15,000 that begins to have to pay the loan back? Or a figure somewhere near there? Someone like that is hardly a millionaire, and with probably a family to provide for (in most cases) you want all the money you can get, it's hardly overreacting to be concerned that the debt has just been doubled, it's a serious drain on your future income, you are going to earn several thousand less in your life! What's good about that? You may argue that through your entire life it's only a small percentage of your life's earnings, but why not throw a £1 coin out of your window every 2 weeks then? That would be too.

    I'm sure you will jump on me for saying this, but I wouldn't be surprised if this move isn't followed by an increase on the percentage of your wage that's taken monthly (just a guess) to make sure that they get more of their loan back.
    Repayments are made at a rate of 9% of earnings over £15,000 per year; a larger loan won't increase the amount of the repayments, but the time over which they're made.

    I'm no great supporter of fees, but the argument goes that the increase in lifetime earnings that a graduate will see compared with a non-graduate should more than cover the loan repayments.
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    (Original post by shrep)
    I'd go to a high fee uni, emigrate after graduation and never repay the student loan.
    Labour can go **** themselves, if they can't afford to subsidise places they should make less places not loads of expensive ones.
    Sucks to be your family

    They still would be subsidising each and every place. btw its labour and conservative policy.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Sucks to be your family

    They still would be subsidising each and every place. btw its labour and conservative policy.
    The idiotic 50% of people at University target was a Labour plan. Education should be free.
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    As the loans are written off after 25 years you will pay the same amount back as before, unless you get some really high paying job which then you will pay back more but as you are earning more you can afford more.
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    (Original post by Illusionary)
    Repayments are made at a rate of 9% of earnings over £15,000 per year; a larger loan won't increase the amount of the repayments, but the time over which they're made.

    I'm no great supporter of fees, but the argument goes that the increase in lifetime earnings that a graduate will see compared with a non-graduate should more than cover the loan repayments.
    I'll take a note of the figures :top: I'll agree that there's a fair point there. But imagine you earn 50k, (for ease I'm going to completely ignore inflation and interest, it's too late at night for that) not an everyday figure, but not out of the question either. You're going to be paying away £4,500 every year. If your loan is 22k (in the region of what I hope mine to be) then you will pay it off after 4 and a half years (or so ... doing this in my head here). Under the new scheme my loan would be in the region of 30k, I'm guessing, so that loan would now take nearly 7 years to pay off, and you got nothing extra that the first example didn't get, not really fair. If you got an everyday wage like 25k then it might take a decade to pay off.

    And to make it worse, I've heard that the government wants 50% of people to go to university in the future :facepalm2: meaning that you have to have that loan just to keep up with the average, you probably won't earn any more than what a person with just A levels gets now. After all, all that will happen is it will decrease the value of what it means to have a degree. Does Brown think it will mean we can all be company executives? :dontknow: Presumably it will just mean that we will have cleaners and bin collectors with degrees (no offense intended to either of those professions, they are undoubtedly vital tasks, just not ones that have required degrees before this point) which will cancel out the effect of degree holders earning more.
 
 
 
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