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Plan for tuition fees to go up to a possible £7,000 a year? Watch

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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    And to make it worse, I've heard that the government wants 50% of people to go to university in the future :facepalm2: meaning that you have to have that loan just to keep up with the average, you probably won't earn any more than what a person with just A levels gets now. After all, all that will happen is it will decrease the value of what it means to have a degree. Does Brown think it will mean we can all be company executives? :dontknow: Presumably it will just mean that we will have cleaners and bin collectors with degrees (no offense intended to either of those professions, they are undoubtedly vital tasks, just not ones that have required degrees before this point) which will cancel out the effect of degree holders earning more.
    Yes, this is the root of much of the problem. University is great for many people but there are a lot other routes to a successful career, often more suitable and leading to considerably less debt.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I know it was a joke, but house prices will lower if there isn't the income to support them.

    Yes 15k, so if you're on 16k then you'd pay back 90 quid a year. I don't think that would break someones bank. It would be their own fault for getting into uni and getting a rubbish job...

    I'd agree the % should increase, but I don't think it would as its political suicide.

    The point about this is that the people who choose to do surf science have to pay for it. I wouldn't like my income tax going up. I certainly wouldnt if i didnt get any immediate benefit.

    Going back to people on 15-16k, without fees retail assistants would have to pay more tax in order for people more capable than them to go to uni, drink beer and become their managers. Its not like the removal of fees helps 'the little guy'.
    You make some good points I'll admit. But on the second point, as I mentioned in a post to Illusionary, Brown has a target of 50% of people going to university, this could force graduates into relatively rubbish jobs. This lumbers you with a loan (now a much bigger one), just to keep up with everyone else. They aren't scary exactly, but still a burden, with an everyday wage you could be waiting 10-15 years now before it's gone. Either way, I'll be deferring the moment I have to pay it!
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    (Original post by Illusionary)
    Yes, this is the root of much of the problem. University is great for many people but there are a lot other routes to a successful career, often more suitable and leading to considerably less debt.
    I agree. What's the solution? :dontknow: Getting an MSc/MA perhaps? What happens when the government decides they want everyone to have one of those too? Soon, some kind of degree higher than a PhD would need to be set up so they can differentiate between the good and the brilliant again, so what was the point? Everyone having a grand title doesn't make us all clever, does it? This qualification inflation doesn't get us anywhere
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    I agree. What's the solution? :dontknow: Getting an MSc/MA perhaps? What happens when the government decides they want everyone to have one of those too? Soon, some kind of degree higher than a PhD would need to be set up so they can differentiate between the good and the brilliant again, so what was the point? Everyone having a grand title doesn't make us all clever, does it? This qualification inflation doesn't get us anywhere
    A higher degree, yes perhaps. However, I'd argue that getting a good first degree (First/2.1) in a worthwhile subject (subjective to some extent, but the extremes in either direction are fairly obvious) from a good university (again, some are obvious, but others will be good for particular subjects) should help to make you stand out. With many employers complaining about the lack of basic numeracy and communication skills of graduates, this should go a long way to demonstrating that you do have these skills.
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    (Original post by Illusionary)
    A higher degree, yes perhaps. However, I'd argue that getting a good first degree (First/2.1) in a worthwhile subject (subjective to some extent, but the extremes in either direction are fairly obvious) from a good university (again, some are obvious, but others will be good for particular subjects) should help to make you stand out. With many employers complaining about the lack of basic numeracy and communication skills of graduates, this should go a long way to demonstrating that you do have these skills.
    Yeah, I'd agree with that. Obviously anyone that has read my sig knows I haven't got a degree yet, but I'd wager that they are hard work. Having people doing even everyday jobs that hold degrees ensures that a large part of the working sector is articulate and hard working, and as a result the general population is better trained than they are now.

    My only slight worry is that this idea that everyone needs a degree may cause institutions to start letting their standards slip, and making them easier (like what you hear about A levels constantly) this would ruin the earlier effect. Plus, it would just seem that these skills are somewhat going to waste. Just an example, why would an office temp need to know advanced calculus?! Or specialised knowledge of cloud formations? ... Currently A levels give all the knowledge and basic skills you need for a job like that. I'd respect the plan more if Brown said he wanted 50% of people to have A levels of C grades and up. That would surely make the population more skilled in the general areas that they need to be, rather than specialised knowledge.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Yeah, I'd agree with that. Obviously anyone that has read my sig knows I haven't got a degree yet, but I'd wager that they are hard work. Having people doing even everyday jobs that hold degrees ensures that a large part of the working sector is articulate and hard working, and as a result the general population is better trained than they are now.

    My only slight worry is that this idea that everyone needs a degree may cause institutions to start letting their standards slip, and making them easier (like what you hear about A levels constantly) this would ruin the earlier effect. Plus, it would just seem that these skills are somewhat going to waste. Just an example, why would an office temp need to know advanced calculus?! Or specialised knowledge of cloud formations? ... Currently A levels give all the knowledge and basic skills you need for a job like that. I'd respect the plan more if Brown said he wanted 50% of people to have A levels of C grades and up. That would surely make the population more skilled in the general areas that they need to be, rather than specialised knowledge.
    I'd say its more that with more people at uni its harder to stand out as I had this problem, so many people had it easier than me and I needed support but was refused it because others didnt need it so neither should I pretty much likely also due to the fact that the uni staff were overworked with loads of students coming in for councilling, hardship loans(which almost all the time went on booze and drugs or a good lifestyle) etc.
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    French unis manage just fine and they only charge 200 euros per year - that's for admin cost; tuition is free. German unis only charge 500 euros and swiss ones charge about 800. they are managing just fine, so why isnt the uk? is it that the standard of education is that much higher in the uk than in continental europe?

    nb: the european charges are the same for international students as well
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    (Original post by Tony2DaMax)
    French unis manage just fine and they only charge 200 euros per year - that's for admin cost; tuition is free. German unis only charge 500 euros and swiss ones charge about 800. they are managing just fine, so why isnt the uk?
    Whats the level of taxation in all those countries?
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    Would it really matter all that much? Student loans are specifically designed so that they'll never bankrupt you or put you into serious financial difficulty, and the interest is practically not there. I don't really think having to pay back for a few more years is really a big deal if you have to be financially solvent for them to demand repayment.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    and the interest is practically not there.

    I don't really think having to pay back for a few more years is really a big deal if you have to be financially solvent for them to demand repayment.
    4.8% is 'practically nothing'?

    Have you run any calculations to guess how long you'd be paying it off for? You don't have to be financially solvent, just earning over 15k.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    4.8% is 'practically nothing'?
    As I understand it the interest rate is adjusted base on inflation, so you'll end up paying back the same value even if the actual £ amount changes. In practical terms, that is nothing, since the actual value to be repaid remains constant no matter how long it takes to repay it.

    I fully admit that I could be wrong on that, though.

    (Original post by Quady)
    Have you run any calculations to guess how long you'd be paying it off for? You don't have to be financially solvent, just earning over 15k.
    Over 15k is fine for financial solvency if you have any sense. It's not as if the SLC is going to come knocking down your door and repossessing all your stuff if you don't pay it back instantly. People are not suffocating under the weight of government-issued student loans. The real problems come about from the ones given by commercial banks.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    As I understand it the interest rate is adjusted base on inflation, so you'll end up paying back the same value even if the actual £ amount changes. In practical terms, that is nothing, since the actual value to be repaid remains constant no matter how long it takes to repay it.

    I fully admit that I could be wrong on that, though.


    Over 15k is fine for financial solvency if you have any sense. It's not as if the SLC is going to come knocking down your door and repossessing all your stuff if you don't pay it back instantly. People are not suffocating under the weight of government-issued student loans. The real problems come about from the ones given by commercial banks.
    What you say is supposedly correct, but thats now how its worked since February or from sept to next next.

    No that's true, but it does make it easier to become insolvent since it doesn't come up on your credit report. And it really messed me over a bit when they started taking 97/month.
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    Silly idea, unless you are upper class then it's a great way to get an extra advantage in life.
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    (Original post by Rizzletastic)
    Silly idea, unless you are upper class then it's a great way to get an extra advantage in life.
    How are you defining 'upper class'?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How are you defining 'upper class'?
    Those who can pay for their kids tuition for a cost of £7k a year or more.
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    (Original post by Rizzletastic)
    Those who can pay for their kids tuition for a cost of £7k a year or more.
    So you mean upper middle class.

    How is it good for that parent? They would be down a lot of money whereas parents that don't contribute anything are better off as they don't have to pay it in tax.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So you mean upper middle class.

    How is it good for that parent? They would be down a lot of money whereas parents that don't contribute anything are better off as they don't have to pay it in tax.
    It wouldn't be good the parent per se, but someone like my dad could have paid 28k over 4 years for my degree without it having any notable impact on his finances. I would have still graduated with no debt and been free and clear to start my own life, people from families less fortunate than mine would be under a mountain of debt for years - some for their entire working lives. So really, the fortunate ones are the people from very wealthy families who's families are willing to support them - everyone else is stuffed!
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    (Original post by The Referee)
    and clear to start my own life, people from families less fortunate than mine would be under a mountain of debt for years - some for their entire working lives.
    So on a 30k income you'll be on 4.5% more than than someone else and its just 28k you aren't being given at some other point in time surely?
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    This idea doesn't sound exactly fair and I imagine the burden on the government of people at University hasn't been helped by the increased numbers. Numbers have increased largely thanks to Polytechnics becoming Universities.

    Though you pay the same fees to study at a lower University as you do to study at a top one. That isn't very fair but meh. The system is not fair at the moment but it's the fairest it possibly can be.

    I am pretty flabbergasted by the amount of middle class kids shouting about how much they will be discriminated by this. Get a grip man. "Ye ye letz startz a bourgeoisieic revolution manz!"
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    (Original post by Joseph90)
    This idea doesn't sound exactly fair and I imagine the burden on the government of people at University hasn't been helped by the increased numbers. Numbers have increased largely thanks to Polytechnics becoming Universities.

    Though you pay the same fees to study at a lower University as you do to study at a top one. That isn't very fair but meh. The system is not fair at the moment but it's the fairest it possibly can be."
    How was the burden lower when they were called polytechnics?

    You only pay the same because people are prepared to pay it. If there was a drop off in applications the fee for that institution would have been revised.
 
 
 
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