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    (Original post by AYE)
    Brown immigrants? surely a ban?

    I'll have to remain on the fence on this one and I've been pretty anti inclusion in past threads.

    The bigot in this thread should realise that their precious western culture includes being open to "aliens" from all corners of the globe. That doesn't mean open immigration either. In saying that, I would co-sign a previous post were the person said something along the lines of western Turkey being European and the east being in line with middle eastern culture. The more remote you are the more likely you'll come across staunch Muslims. As an anecdote; I'm from the east but very liberal and would've remained so had I never left Turkey.
    Brown immigrants are a liability and white immigrants are an asset. white immigrants do not commit disproportionate amounts of crime, terrorism, honour killings, forced marriage etc.

    I want to live with my own white people In my own ancestral homeland. I dont want to live in a diverse multicultural hellhol. I want britain to be white not brown.
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    (Original post by NordicBoy)
    I want to live with my own white people In my own ancestral homeland. I dont want to live in a diverse multicultural hellhol. I want britain to be white not brown.
    I don't want to live near you. That doesn't give me the right to choose that though.
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    (Original post by ashurst)
    Wait, so on the one hand you are talking about democratic western values etc. (free speech...) but you are advocating banning another poster just because he mentioned that he doesn't like "brown" immigrants...how is that indicative of free speech?

    He is not inciting violence towards them, merely stating his own preferences. I smell hypocrisy in the air...
    Not that is hates brown immigrants (though that is detestable as well) but the under (over) tones of his post came across as racist to me, which I assume is an offence worthy of being banned. If he wasn't being racist :rolleyes: then fair enough, hate all you like.
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    (Original post by NordicBoy)
    Brown immigrants are a liability and white immigrants are an asset. white immigrants do not commit disproportionate amounts of crime, terrorism, honour killings, forced marriage etc.

    I want to live with my own white people In my own ancestral homeland. I dont want to live in a diverse multicultural hellhol. I want britain to be white not brown.
    First section, I'll not get into as the dialogue would end up being about poverty-crime.

    I have a question for you, you say white immigrants are an asset so Italians are fine? I ask because, western Turkish culture is much closer to Italian culture than British is to Italians (at least southern Italians) even there mannerisms are similar. Would those Turks be ok with you? (and no its not a trap to get you into saying something)
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    (Original post by AYE)
    First section, I'll not get into as the dialogue would end up being about poverty-crime.

    I have a question for you, you say white immigrants are an asset so Italians are fine? I ask because, western Turkish culture is much closer to Italian culture than British is to Italians (at least southern Italians) even there mannerisms are similar. Would those Turks be ok with you? (and no its not a trap to get you into saying something)
    Actually, he may have a point about "brown" people. Without wanting to be racist, I back my points up with what is widely regarded as one of the most authoritative and large-scale examinations of the economic impact of immigration in the UK carried out by the House of Lords. I have posted the link below, if you would like to take a look.

    However, I think the poster is wrong about "brown" coloured people in general. I think credit should be given to different groups who, by and large make hard-working immigrants that contribute positively to society. I think in particular of many Asian communities (Chinese, Korean), Eastern Europeans (such as Poles) and also the Indian (Sikh) community, that have relatively low crime rates, and a real dedication to education and advancement when they arrive in the UK.

    Unfortunately, not all groups make positive contributions. Especially black people (Africans and Jamaicans), as well as Muslims, who, on average are less productive and have far higher unemployment rates (see bottom of this post for the official government statistics on unemployment discrepancies between religions). It is not surprising that the lowest performing group of them all (Somalis) are black AND Muslim. Terrible mix.

    http://www.publications.parliament.u...onaf/82/82.pdf

    "
    While the overall fiscal impact of immigration is small, this masks
    significant variations across different immigrant groups.
    Professor Rowthorn concluded that “the positive contribution of some
    immigrants is largely or wholly offset by negative contributions of others”.

    A recent IPPR study found that immigrant employees from 13
    countries—ranging from Americans to Zimbabweans—paid more tax and national insurance contributions on average than UK-born citizens, while immigrants from countries such as Bangladesh and Turkey paid considerably less on average. These variations are largely due to differences in average incomes between different immigrant groups. The same study also found that almost no Americans and 1% of Poles and Filipinos in Britain claim income support, compared to 39% of Somali immigrants.


    The IPPR thus argues: “The immense differences between different subgroups within the immigrant population (e.g. country of origin or route of entry) and even bigger differences within groups can often mean that lumping people together as immigrants is almost meaningless” (p 299).

    "



    It would seem that Muslims in the UK are far less productive than those coming from other religions. The most recent wide-scale UK Government Statistics (2004) show that whilst Christians and Jews had an average unemployment rate of around 3-5% and Sikhs around 6%, the Muslim unemployment rate hovered at around 15%. The female unemployment rate amongst Muslims in the UK was at almost 20%. Not exactly productive for society...
    :

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=979


    In short, this report (not exactly far-right wing propaganda, but an authoritative government survey) does not paint Turks or Muslims in the best light. Bottom line: I would much prefer Polish or Chinese immigrants- as mass influx of Turks into the UK is not needed and it is questionable whether it would be desirable.

    Furthermore, I find that Polish people for example integrate much easier than Muslims.

    Anyways, it's probably all a moot point- Turkey will probably never be in the EU. Thank God!
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    I'm for It but only when they:-

    1) Sort out the human rights issues.

    2) Leave Northern Cyprus and handed It back to Cyprus.

    3) Give the kurdish population of turkey autonomy.
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    Either they join the European union soon or join a Russian led union or the Arab League later on. I'd prefer them to be in the EU personally.
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    once they stop being twаts to the kurds, then perhaps. i don't want serbia in the EU for the same reasons as i don't want turkey in it.

    this crаp about them not joining through them being muslim is just that. bosnia and albania are muslim and they're undeniably in europe.
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    (Original post by Pocket Calculator)
    once they stop being twаts to the kurds, then perhaps. i don't want serbia in the EU for the same reasons as i don't want turkey in it.

    this crаp about them not joining through them being muslim is just that. bosnia and albania are muslim and they're undeniably in europe.
    Errr combined population of Bosnia and Albania = 6.5 million
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    Are you aware of the fact that at the same time the Turks were being made to leave Greek land? And as to how innovative Turks are, I am laughing so hard to be able to make a comment.
    Read what she said before you spout fatuous, racist crap: "those who follow him".
    And she's correct, they undoubtedly are the most innovative and educated part of the population.
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    (Original post by ashurst)
    Hah. You do know why it's secular right? Because the military there dictates that it should be.
    Bull. The secular part of the Turkish population are that way for a reason; they don't need to be "dictated" by the military to hold the view that religious involvement in public life is backward, dangerous and counter-productive. Plus, many secular Turks abhor the military's roles in coups and see them as a barrier against both secularism and democracy.

    The overwhelming majority of the population is Mulsim- and believe me, most of these Turks would not hesitate to flaunt their Muslim identity once they reach our (far too) liberal society.
    Although it's true that the majority of the population is Muslim, the 99% figure is false. Do not underestimate the size of the secular population.

    The problem lies in the fact that if Turkey were to be accepted into the EU, the migrants would be of the religious, conservative persuasion (as seen with the gastarbeiter in Germany). The secular population are wealthier, have better education opportunities etc and therefore there is little reason for them to migrate.

    But it is a moot point. At the moment Europe is shifting to the right. In fact, I think apart from three governments in the EU (Spain, UK and one other) there is no government which is entirely left-wing. Plus, the Conservatives will probably come to power as well in the UK soon enough.
    The Greek government is socialist, and Romania is likely to elect a left-wing candidate.
    As for the Conservative Party, they fully support Turkey's bid.

    Turkey is not a European nation, everybody knows it, and it is really as simple as that.
    No, that's just YOU giving your own opinion. Hardly "everyone". Try not to generalise, it would make you look a little more credible.

    The East of Turkey is about as developed a Iraq!
    Ha! Well that's Kurdish territory anyway...
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    It has to be said; I am AGAINST Turkish membership.
    Just trying to counter the ignorant statements and bigotry.

    It's never going to happen anyway, so why fret?
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    Whoracle, if you needed any further evidence of the EU's current stance on Turkey, this is a statement of the man just elected as the first EU President (Herman von Rompuy):

    “Turkey is not a part of Europe and will never be part of Europe”

    And I totally agree with him.
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    i sometime forget that the bosphorous straits separate europe and asia. and the EU is, you know, a european organisation!
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    (Original post by Whoracle)
    Read what she said before you spout fatuous, racist crap: "those who follow him".
    And she's correct, they undoubtedly are the most innovative and educated part of the population.
    think before you comment. They may be whatever they are, but what about the rest of the population ?? We can't select who will join the EU and who will not. If Turkey joins, they all join.
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    Sarkozy and Merkel have both shattered Turkey's dreams by appointing Van Rompuy.

    As for my views on Turkey, until they allow freedom of speech and improve their human rights, they should not be allowed to join.
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    (Original post by ashurst)
    Whoracle, if you needed any further evidence of the EU's current stance on Turkey, this is a statement of the man just elected as the first EU President (Herman von Rompuy):

    “Turkey is not a part of Europe and will never be part of Europe”

    And I totally agree with him.
    I know what Rompuy's stance is.
    Doesn't make any difference as Turkey were never going to join anyway.
    The "opening up" of membership talks was just political posturing to keep Turkey on side.
    Whether you like it or not it is hugely important that Turkey remains a Western orientated nation and ally of Europe and Israel.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    think before you comment. They may be whatever they are, but what about the rest of the population ?? We can't select who will join the EU and who will not. If Turkey joins, they all join.
    Yes, like I already said - it would be the Islamist parts of the population that would migrate into Europe, as seen in Germany, the Netherlands etc. Which is part of the reason why I am against it.
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    Turkey is an overwhelmingly Muslim country, the current government are staunchly Islamic, it is only the army that maintains the secularity of the nation.

    No country that has a 95% plus Muslim population can claim to be truly European.
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    (Original post by ashurst)
    Turkey is an overwhelmingly Muslim country, the current government are staunchly Islamic, it is only the army that maintains the secularity of the nation.

    No country that has a 95% plus Muslim population can claim to be truly European.
    Being European has nothing to do with religion.

    Atheists make up the majority of Europe, would you say that true Europeans are atheist, no, you'd say that in order to be a 'true' European, one must be a christian, which is complete nonsense, whether someone is a muslim, a christian an athiest is completely beside the point.

    The problem with Turkey is that there is no freedom of speech or expression, and they abuse human rights, which is what sets them apart from other European countries, regardless of their religion or skin colour, which is completely beside the point, in order to become a part of our union, you must allow freedom of speech/expression and you cannot, under any circumstances, abuse human rights.

    Once they sort those issues out then by all means let them into Europe, they're already a part of NATO and have helped us out enormously.
 
 
 
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