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    (Original post by Xristina)
    Yes, it was terrible. However, it's in the past. You can't really punish a modern state for what their ancestors did, or else Germany wouldn't have joined either :p:
    Except Germany admitted to the holocaust. Turkey still deny it to this day.
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    (Original post by guy_incognito)
    Except Germany admitted to the holocaust. Turkey still deny it to this day.
    Really ?? Oh God, they are so ****** up !! Haha....and they wanna join the EU. LOL.
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    (Original post by guy_incognito)
    Except Germany admitted to the holocaust. Turkey still deny it to this day.
    So your solution to Turkey's refusal to recognise the Armenian genocide is to close the door on their European Union aspirations and push them further away from Europe?
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    (Original post by CompanyLimited)
    So your solution to Turkey's refusal to recognise the Armenian genocide is to close the door on their European Union aspirations and push them further away from Europe?
    They are not in Europe in the first place.And when a country shows no will for team play, they why would they join ? They don't want to solve the problem in Cyprus, they deny the crimes they did, plus they don't belong in Europe.
    Why would they join ?
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    They are not in Europe in the first place.And when a country shows no will for team play, they why would they join ? They don't want to solve the problem in Cyprus, they deny the crimes they did, plus they don't belong in Europe.
    Why would they join ?
    To be fair - although I don't agree with their entry to the EU (or Britain's membership of it) - all of Turkey north of the Dardanelles is officially European. Saying that, it does only make up about a fifteenth of the country's land mass. :p:
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    They are not in Europe in the first place.
    Neither is Cyprus.

    (Original post by Xristina)
    And when a country shows no will for team play, they why would they join ?
    Actually, the Turkish government has been implementing swift reforms over the past decade in an array areas to satisfy membership criteria.

    (Original post by Xristina)
    They don't want to solve the problem in Cyprus
    Actually, they do.

    (Original post by Xristina)
    they deny the crimes they did
    Yes, they do and it's shameful. The solution, however, is not to close the door to European Union membership on their face.

    (Original post by Xristina)
    plus they don't belong in Europe.
    That's your opinion.
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    (Original post by CompanyLimited)
    So your solution to Turkey's refusal to recognise the Armenian genocide is to close the door on their European Union aspirations (...)?
    Turky is the only solution to that. Turkey is the key, if we want to talk of „solutions”. „Closing the door” on „aspirations”, as you put it, is, however, like doing the same on a naughty child who wants sweets. It is so both in value and magnitude, thinking along those lines.

    It is also belittling the issue, which is a big one in itself, recognized by all the world (in general. Please do not grasp at daggers and point out individuals who do not) but by the country in question! Bear in mind that one of the reasons the EU should not permit Turkey to enter is not of teh genocide itself (summed up aptly by someone bringing up Germany) but denial and a continual persistance that nothing happened. Those are lies. I am sorry if this appears to be a blunt statement, but again, those are lies. That they are lies cannot be contradicted in any way except – silence. And on this issue, the Turkish goverment is golden. Such a pretty shine there is to it, too.

    History, written by those who won? Perhaps. And in this case, in face of all evidence, Turkey is the moral loser. Following the child analogy: Mommy, I didn't steal that candybar! And, after Mommy not believing, a sulky silence.

    Again, not for teh genocide itself, but for denial of genocide. Throughout the ages, all countries committed crimes, slaughters, waged wars. That is history. But Germany (again, I return to Germany as Germany was already brought up) does not persist in claiming lily white innocence in what came only after the Armenian genocide.



    Please do not ask if „closing the door” is a solution. If one persists in thinking along those lines, then I propose: will „opening the doors wide” be a solution, then? Rhetorical that may be, but I for one doubt it.
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    (Original post by CompanyLimited)
    So your solution to Turkey's refusal to recognise the Armenian genocide is to close the door on their European Union aspirations and push them further away from Europe?
    Why should the EU and the rest of the world attempt to resolve that. The door is open for them, so long as they take the correct steps. This decision ultimately rests with the nationalistic stubbornness of the idiot brokers in Istanbul sat under Ataturk's photo. There are tons of issues to be resolved by Turkey, and the Armenian genocide is just one of them.

    All this wouldn't be something new however. Its the same thing that was and is holding Croatia's application back. The EU imposed blocks towards membership until they start co-operating with the war-crimes tribunal.
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    (Original post by CompanyLimited)
    Neither is Cyprus.

    No it's not, however their culture, which is quite similar to Greek culture, is mainly European.

    Actually, the Turkish government has been implementing swift reforms over the past decade in an array areas to satisfy membership criteria.

    Apparently, they are not trying hard enough, do they ? Or else, they'd be in the EU by now.

    Actually, they do.

    Yes, but what they want to do with it doesn't agree with anyone else.

    Yes, they do and it's shameful. The solution, however, is not to close the door to European Union membership on their face.

    India belongs to Asia. This doesn't mean we should close the door to the EU membership on their face !

    That's your opinion.
    That's a map's opinion, actually.
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    You have to be wary of immigration but otherwise i agree with it.

    I think Europe should not have unlimited immigration within the EU anyway.
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    Cyprus.

    I have nothing against the Turks as a people, but their history and politics will hold them back for as long as they allow them to do so.

    P.S. I think Russia is at least as 'good' a candidate as Turkey in all respects including the all-important democratic one. Sure it's too big and way out there, but so what...right?
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    P.S. I think Russia is at least as 'good' a candidate as Turkey in all respects including the all-important democratic one.
    You're deluded if you think that Russia's democratic credentials are as strong as Turkey's. The World Democracy Audit ranks Turkey at number 50, whereas Russia is at 133 - below China.
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    (Original post by CompanyLimited)
    You're deluded if you think that Russia's democratic credentials are as strong as Turkey's. The World Democracy Audit ranks Turkey at number 50, whereas Russia is at 133 - below China.
    You do know that ranking is horrendously biased?
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    Don't see why not, I thought Turkey would be good for the EU - it'll annoy France, plus we vote for them all the time in Eurovision :p: Besides, haven't they been trying to get in for years now?

    As you can see I have a bit of limited understanding...so I have a question! If Turkey could get in, would that mean Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia can as well?
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    Turkey was once a white country. St George came from there. Now it's part of the Muslim World.
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    Turkey should (and probably will) be accepted in the EU.
    There are many reasons:
    1- Turkey is the biggest and the most powerfull (military) country in one of the most dangerous region in the world. It's a good idea to try to make it confederate a membre of our Union.
    2- Turkey is the biggest moderate Islamic country. It's essential that Turkey remains a moderate Islamic country and it doesn't became like Iran. It's essential that EU makes sure that it'll be happen. And the only way to do this is to accept Turkey in the EU.
    3- Istanbul is a very European city. Europe and Turkey have had always very close relation. It's time to improve this relations.
    4- Turkey is one of the most important economic partner of the EU. And it has a strong economy, not as strog as some EU countries, but it grows very quickly, much more quickly than EU countries.
    5- It's a democaratic country and it's very important to stabilize the democracy in Turkey and back the liberal political factions in oreder to ensure all the civil rights in the country.
    6- Turkey is in a very strategic position for many reasons: pipelines, military bases, ecc.ecc.. It's fondamental for the EU's energy security.

    And many other reagions. EU needs Turkey becaus EU nees to grow.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    That's a map's opinion, actually.
    It's still just an opinion though. There isn't any scientific basis for considering Europe and Asia to be separate continents anyway. For any geological definition of a continent you come up with, there isn't a reason to consider Europe and Asia as separate. That's why our notion of continents is based on convention and culture. There isn't really an agreed on definition of Europe's boundaries, that's why Israel is in Eurovision:p:

    In some countries they don't actually consider Europe and Asia to be separate continents. They consider Eurasia to be a single continent.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    It's still just an opinion though. There isn't any scientific basis for considering Europe and Asia to be separate continents anyway. For any geological definition of a continent you come up with, there isn't a reason to consider Europe and Asia as separate. That's why our notion of continents is based on convention and culture. There isn't really an agreed on definition of Europe's boundaries, that's why Israel is in Eurovision:p:

    In some countries they don't actually consider Europe and Asia to be separate continents. They consider Eurasia to be a single continent.
    Then why just leave it at Turkey joining ? Why not Middle East, India and China ?
    And, please, Eurovision is a ridiculous contest, we won't decide what's in Europe, based on eurovision.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    Then why just leave it at Turkey joining ? Why not Middle East, India and China ?
    And, please, Eurovision is a ridiculous contest, we won't decide what's in Europe, based on eurovision.
    Well technically the EU already extends as far as south america and the indian ocean due to France's overseas departments.

    There is justification for including Turkey in Europe since part of it is in Europe. However you define Europe, at least part of Turkey is in Europe. But I guess you could also say that for a country to be in the EU it should have the majority of it's land in Europe, or the majority of it's population. Or maybe both.

    Oh yeah and Eurovision is silly. Other than Eurovision, I've never heard of anyone who considers Israel to be in Europe.
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    No.
 
 
 
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