Turn on thread page Beta

Turkey joining the EU? watch

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Whoracle)
    ROFL you don't have a clue. But it would be futile to even attempt injecting any sense into someone like you, so I'm not even going to bother.
    :centipe: :fatcontroller: :turban: :diep: :hide: :nopity: :ymca:

    I do have a clue in fact.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Turkey will become a part of the EU, anyway. Maybe it will take 5 years, or 7 years or 10 years but Turkey will become a part of the EU.

    That's why it makes more sense by discussing the changes that will occur after Turkey is part of the EU.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Turkey will never become a part of the EU, it's gone as far as it can with the relationship it already has. France and Austria are staunchly against the Turks ever gettting into the Union and Germany no doubt would join them aswell, imagine the influx of Turks moving to Germany to be with the large amount already there...

    Personally speaking I'd rather stick a red hot needle into my eye than allow Turkey into the EU, they don't share a common European culture, their country is mostly outside of Europe, their current government is increasingly islamist and the huge immigration that Britain/France/Germany would encounter because of it just isn't acceptable, we have enough immigrants in places like London already, we don't need another influx.

    Israel (if the Palestinian issue is ever solved) has more chance of getting into the EU than Turkey ever does, due to it's essentially European culture, it's strong vibrant democracy and the heritage of most of the jews living there now. Not that I think Israel would ever have the chance to join anyways.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Turkey will never become a part of the EU, it's gone as far as it can with the relationship it already has. France and Austria are staunchly against the Turks ever gettting into the Union and Germany no doubt would join them aswell, imagine the influx of Turks moving to Germany to be with the large amount already there...
    Again, Turkey will become a part of the EU. The EU has begun negotiatios with Turkey since 80s (I do not know when exactly).


    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Israel (if the Palestinian issue is ever solved) has more chance of getting into the EU than Turkey ever does, due to it's essentially European culture, it's strong vibrant democracy and the heritage of most of the jews living there now. Not that I think Israel would ever have the chance to join anyways.
    You should consider what will be changed before Turkey will become a part of the EU. There are changes that have to occur before the Turkey can become a part of the EU.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NoCommentMan)
    Again, Turkey will become a part of the EU. The EU has begun negotiatios with Turkey since 80s (I do not know when exactly).




    You should consider what will be changed before Turkey will become a part of the EU. There are changes that have to occur before the Turkey can become a part of the EU.
    Do you not see that the fact that Turkey has been talking to the EU since the 1980s, nearly thirty years now, shows that it'll never join?

    Iceland is being fast tracked to join in 2010, just two years after first mooting the idea, the Eastern bloc countries did it in about 6/7 years, Norway could join tomorrow if it's citizens ever wanted to. But Turkey has been negotiating for nearly thirty years now, it's never going to get in, especially if France/Austria/Germany have their way, you seem to forget that a bloc like that can block anything from happening in the EU if they wanted to.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Do you not see that the fact that Turkey has been talking to the EU since the 1980s, nearly thirty years now, shows that it'll never join?

    Iceland is being fast tracked to join in 2010, just two years after first mooting the idea, the Eastern bloc countries did it in about 6/7 years, Norway could join tomorrow if it's citizens ever wanted to. But Turkey has been negotiating for nearly thirty years now, it's never going to get in, especially if France/Austria/Germany have their way, you seem to forget that a bloc like that can block anything from happening in the EU if they wanted to.
    This shows that Turkey is not ready to join the EU but this does also show that Turkey has to change many things such as women rights etc. and then join.

    I am not stating that Turkey has to join today or tomorrow.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    No, Turkey shouldn't become part of the EU as they aren't European in any ethnic or cultural way.
    Nor is Guadeloupe...

    In fact fighting invading Turks could be considered part of European heritage, lol.
    Hardly a pan-European sentiment is it now?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Neville 'Facking' Bartos)
    Nor is Guadeloupe...



    Hardly a pan-European sentiment is it now?
    Guadeloupe is in the European Union as an integral part of the French Republic and I don't think anyone is going to argue that the French Republic is not a European nation.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Guadeloupe is in the European Union as an integral part of the French Republic and I don't think anyone is going to argue that the French Republic is not a European nation.
    But the people of Guadeloupe can hardly be considered ethnically or culturally 'European', at least nor more so than the Turks by a long shot.

    ... and explain to me, how is Guadeloupe so "integral" to the French Republic? I hardly doubt Paris would smoulder if Guadeloupe vanished.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Neville 'Facking' Bartos)
    But the people of Guadeloupe can hardly be considered ethnically or culturally 'European', at least nor more so than the Turks by a long shot.

    ... and explain to me, how is Guadeloupe so "integral" to the French Republic? I hardly doubt Paris would smoulder if Guadeloupe vanished.
    It's integral to the French Republic in the same way Hawaii is an integral part of the USA. It has the same status as the regions on the mainland of France.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Psyk)
    It's integral to the French Republic in the same way Hawaii is an integral part of the USA. It has the same status as the regions on the mainland of France.
    Yes I know that, I inferred that he thought it was of some importance to France.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Neville 'Facking' Bartos)
    Yes I know that, I inferred that he thought it was of some importance to France.
    I was speaking territorially but the Guadelopian citizens are as much citizens of France as someone from Marseille is and hold the same voting rights and importance and yes they can be considered culturally European as they are culturally French.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    I was speaking territorially but the Guadelopian citizens are as much citizens of France as someone from Marseille is and hold the same voting rights and importance and yes they can be considered culturally European as they are culturally French.
    Oh hello! Now we've made it, can you tell me how? I'm eager to hear your response...
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Neville 'Facking' Bartos)
    Oh hello! Now we've made it, can you tell me how? I'm eager to hear your response...
    They speak French.
    They live under French law.
    They have lived under French rule for over 300 years.
    Their literature and media is French.
    They follow a French educational curriculum.

    Do I need continue?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Of course I know about that law, and I support it 100%.
    Good for you. I however feel the law should be the other way. Woman who refuse to wear the veil should be discriminated against.

    Ha! But it would be futile to even attempt injecting any sense into someone like you, so I'm not even going to bother.
    Turks are from Central Asian. They even boast about it all the time. Turkey before the Central Asians came was the land of Greeks and Armenians.

    Again, Turkey will become a part of the EU. The EU has begun negotiatios with Turkey since 80s (I do not know when exactly).
    That's not a good sign. Most negotiation to entry is less then a decade. Turkey has been beaten by countries that have been under Communist rule for 60 years and had to rebuild their economy/democracy.


    Personal my kind of Eu is one that stretches from Iceland to Russia. With Armenia and Georgia in it. Bosnia should be isolated until the Serbs/Croats/Bosniaks (muslims) learn to run a country together properly. Turkey excluded permanently.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Turkey will never become a part of the EU, it's gone as far as it can with the relationship it already has. France and Austria are staunchly against the Turks ever gettting into the Union and Germany no doubt would join them aswell, imagine the influx of Turks moving to Germany to be with the large amount already there...

    Personally speaking I'd rather stick a red hot needle into my eye than allow Turkey into the EU, they don't share a common European culture, their country is mostly outside of Europe, their current government is increasingly islamist and the huge immigration that Britain/France/Germany would encounter because of it just isn't acceptable, we have enough immigrants in places like London already, we don't need another influx.

    Israel (if the Palestinian issue is ever solved) has more chance of getting into the EU than Turkey ever does, due to it's essentially European culture, it's strong vibrant democracy and the heritage of most of the jews living there now. Not that I think Israel would ever have the chance to join anyways.
    The European Union is not an exclusive institution as regards a 'common European culture'. Indeed, there have been desperate attempts within the past twenty years simply to understand what that culture consists of; has Europe ever existed as a common entity? The editors of Eurozine see this as a project that is itself nascent, something that will require synthesis and a common approach to historical grand narrative in the future, not presently (see: http://www.eurozine.com/articles/200...ozine-en.html).

    Equally, other observers have noted how an obsession within the EU toward the nation state (and its 'unique culture' therein implied) continues to stifle the progress of the institution itself. Turkey is not a latecomer to this debate.

    Turkey was founded on principles of democracy and secularism, based on a substantial interface with Germany throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries. Kemal Ataturk, among the other great reformers of 20th century Turkish history, were largely European educated persons attempting to recast the form of a modern nation state. To argue that the government is Islamist is peculiar as a point of opposition; you may as well argue that the German government is increasingly Calvinist, seeing as one partner of the ruling bloc is the Christian Democrat Party. Equally, nations such as Albania have a fierce Christian identity that was in many regards amplified during the conflicts of the 1990s, with the very symbol of Albanian resistance being the Church of the Heart.

    Turkey's major centers of population and commerce (Konya, Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, etc), are increasingly 'western' in terms of consumer choice and popular culture. I have worked in Turkey, indeed I have just returned from working in central Turkey in its most traditional area (the Konya plain). This did not prevent me from using Friday's (the Muslim holy day) in order to exchange money, visit supermarkets and use public buildings, indicating that Turkish culture is very much one of a European model.

    You fall on the rhetoric of immigration 'influx', yet would this largely be the case? It would be more likely that many Turkish workers would not travel outside the country itself, seeing as unlike EU states it is undergoing a massive economic expansion, especially in the areas of construction which attract itinerant labour (I have just returned from Istanbul; it is largely a building-site at the moment). Indeed, many Turks have closer affiliations with France and Germany, including a greater commonality with German language and culture. There were 'fears' that when Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU there would be an 'immigration influx', but this did not occur even in any form.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    They speak French.
    granted (but don't forget Creole)

    They live under French law.
    You think Bermudians are culturally English as well then?

    They have lived under French rule for over 300 years.
    Most countries in the world at one point were under European rule, if this the route you want to go down, its a slippery one.

    Their literature and media is French.
    Because they are ruled by France.

    They follow a French educational curriculum.
    Because they are ruled by France.

    Do I need continue?
    Yes please


    .... and tell me, do you think the people of Guadeloupe feel more European or Caribbean?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I'm quite sure Turkey won't join the EU zone.
    Let's face it , there is nothing European in that Asian country. Just because a small turkish area is whithin European land borders ,does not make them Europeans.
    They are Oriental Muslims , and believe it or not according to the European leaders islam should not have place in the Union.

    Other aspect is Turkish population. Romania and Bulgaria , the latest EU members , combined had a population of 30 mln. And Turkey has 80 mln.
    Germany is already flooded with Turks (about 8 mln ) and what is going to happen without current restrictions.

    Turkish culture is too different and has no place in Europe.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Catsmeat)
    The European Union is not an exclusive institution as regards a 'common European culture'. Indeed, there have been desperate attempts within the past twenty years simply to understand what that culture consists of; has Europe ever existed as a common entity? The editors of Eurozine see this as a project that is itself nascent, something that will require synthesis and a common approach to historical grand narrative in the future, not presently (see: http://www.eurozine.com/articles/200...ozine-en.html).

    Equally, other observers have noted how an obsession within the EU toward the nation state (and its 'unique culture' therein implied) continues to stifle the progress of the institution itself. Turkey is not a latecomer to this debate.

    Turkey was founded on principles of democracy and secularism, based on a substantial interface with Germany throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries. Kemal Ataturk, among the other great reformers of 20th century Turkish history, were largely European educated persons attempting to recast the form of a modern nation state. To argue that the government is Islamist is peculiar as a point of opposition; you may as well argue that the German government is increasingly Calvinist, seeing as one partner of the ruling bloc is the Christian Democrat Party. Equally, nations such as Albania have a fierce Christian identity that was in many regards amplified during the conflicts of the 1990s, with the very symbol of Albanian resistance being the Church of the Heart.

    Turkey's major centers of population and commerce (Konya, Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, etc), are increasingly 'western' in terms of consumer choice and popular culture. I have worked in Turkey, indeed I have just returned from working in central Turkey in its most traditional area (the Konya plain). This did not prevent me from using Friday's (the Muslim holy day) in order to exchange money, visit supermarkets and use public buildings, indicating that Turkish culture is very much one of a European model.

    You fall on the rhetoric of immigration 'influx', yet would this largely be the case? It would be more likely that many Turkish workers would not travel outside the country itself, seeing as unlike EU states it is undergoing a massive economic expansion, especially in the areas of construction which attract itinerant labour (I have just returned from Istanbul; it is largely a building-site at the moment). Indeed, many Turks have closer affiliations with France and Germany, including a greater commonality with German language and culture. There were 'fears' that when Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU there would be an 'immigration influx', but this did not occur even in any form.
    Welcome back! Glad you decided to return.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by etnies)
    Just because a small turkish area is whithin European land borders ,does not make them Europeans.
    .

    What would you define as European?
 
 
 
Poll
Cats or dogs?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.