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Tancredo: Threaten to bomb Muslim holy sites in retaliation Watch

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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    I think if pushed to breaking point the US would dare to do it.
    it's not going to happen because:
    1) to do so would be invoking the wrath of every single muslim, not even just the ones that practiced properly but pretty much everyone with a significant islamic heritage would be up in arms

    2) therefore the us woud be incredibly unpopular throughout europe and the western world, as these attacks are certain to cause social unrest in countries where there is any form of significant muslim minority (i can imagine france and the uk would be particularly pissed)

    3) as western countries go, the us tends to favour the military option signifcantly more than other countries [im thinking mainly european], and is signifcantly more conservative than most. even if by some miracle the us actually did it no other country would help because of the general attitude of the public in those countries [e.g. scandinavia]

    4) it would never get passed infancy in the us anyway, because while it is still a more conservative country than some others, liberal groups would protest massively, not to mention the large no. of muslims living in the country who would cause absolute mayhem in the us ever did it.

    therefore it is simply unfeasible for the united states to even consider and tancredo is a douche.

    /thread
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    (Original post by Yawn-er)
    That quote is enough to tell me that Stanley Baldwin was a fool.
    So you are telling me that the killing of civilians to crush morale wasnt a very strong theme during WW2?

    Im not saying I agree either way with what he said, just I think that its apt for this thread and (possibly) a point of relevant contention.
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    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    it's not going to happen because:
    1) to do so would be invoking the wrath of every single muslim, not even just the ones that practiced properly but pretty much everyone with a significant islamic heritage would be up in arms
    While this could happen, I believe that in desperate times this outcome would be overlooked and the US would pursue its own interests. The US have already proved that western-muslim opposition will not prevent it from attacking the East (the Iraq war comes to mind).

    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    2) therefore the us woud be incredibly unpopular throughout europe and the western world, as these attacks are certain to cause social unrest in countries where there is any form of significant muslim minority (i can imagine france and the uk would be particularly pissed)
    Again my argument from above is relevant here. The US already knows that it is unpopular and if it's power grows even more then it's reasonable to assume that it will have the final say in world matters and Western criticism will account for nothing.

    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    3) as western countries go, the us tends to favour the military option signifcantly more than other countries [im thinking mainly european], and is signifcantly more conservative than most. even if by some miracle the us actually did it no other country would help because of the general attitude of the public in those countries [e.g. scandinavia]
    I think that Britain would help as it is a strong ally with the US due to colonial ties, although I could be wrong.

    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    4) it would never get passed infancy in the us anyway, because while it is still a more conservative country than some others, liberal groups would protest massively, not to mention the large no. of muslims living in the country who would cause absolute mayhem in the us ever did it.
    Again my first comment is relevant here. If the US was attacked heavily martial law could be enforced and so citizens rights would mean nothing, including the right to protest.


    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    therefore it is simply unfeasible for the united states to even consider and tancredo is a douche.
    Let me float a scenario by you. NYC, LA, Boston & Washington DC have all been destroyed by nuclear bombs with power comparable to that of the Hiroshima bombs. Islamic extremists (including Al Qaeda) in the Middle East have claimed direct responsibility for these attacks and have stated that it has been done in the name of Islam and that this is a religious war.

    What would the US do now?
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    What would the US do now?
    that is fantasyland. these groups would NEVER have the capability to use nukes in the first place, let alone discharge them in america. anway, standard modern nuclear bombs have the power 40x that of the one that hit hiroshima

    tancredo actually suggests it as a deterrent for further terrorist attacks which is a completely different to the scenario you are suggesting. Besides, like the [literal] British one before it, the us's 'empire' is in decline, it own't be able to hold onto it's notions of superiority and isolationism much longer, in fact it's already started to go.
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    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    that is fantasyland. these groups would NEVER have the capability to use nukes in the first place, let alone discharge them in america. anway, standard modern nuclear bombs have the power 40x that of the one that hit hiroshima

    tancredo actually suggests it as a deterrent for further terrorist attacks which is a completely different to the scenario you are suggesting. Besides, like the [literal] British one before it, the us's 'empire' is in decline, it own't be able to hold onto it's notions of superiority and isolationism much longer, in fact it's already started to go.

    lolwut? :lolwut:
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Well then, what do you think is to blame for the rise of Global Islamic fundamentalism/terrorism? It is all well and good counting how many young muslims ascribe to these beliefs, but surely it is more beneficial to find out what the root of the problem is and tackle it at its' source?
    That would be a good idea, but as we all know finding the root is next to impossible. The majority of extremists don't want the West to exist so any solution in which we exist is unacceptable.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I'm an idiot? when was the last time people were shooting for sport with an Uzi semi automatic machine gun and infantile kids for that matter. Secondly the Jewish Spartan State Of Israel has mandatory military conscription for all youth to defend "their country" just because they don't dress at a young age in militant religious attire it doesn't mean they're not being fed with that same ideology at home to prepare them for the army when they hit they right age.

    Secondly they can dress their children in whatever way they choose. Until the Israeli Zionist scum realize that they won't be able to occupy people's land with impunity generation after generation will be at war with them just as they took their land through war.

    I see no problem with whatever age those children are, they need to realise that the Israelis are not people that want peace and have no regard for their humanity or dignity.
    It is perfectly possible to shoot for fun with uzi's, I see no reason why not. There is a big difference between dressing your little child up like a suicide bomber and having fun shooting an uzi on a weekend. Of course they have military conscription, their population is rather small, it's the same across the world. To be honest i'm sick to death of Muslims harping on about Israel stealing their land, there is some messed up reason why each part of the desert has some sort of special meaning that means you should own it, but as far as i'm concered Muslims have ruined 99% of that area, that should be enough for them. Perhaps when you've made at least 1 of the Muslim states into a half decent place, where women aren't stoned in the streets and children aren't married to adults, the international community might well listen. Until then I can't think of a group of people we shouldn't give the land to more.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    They have the power but why should they? They don't see those people as terrorists they see them as freedom fighters.

    How can you tell a Muslim to help a westerner kill another Muslim after they see Western Armies occupy and massacre entire nations.
    Exactly, why should they? Because if they don't they stand to lose their beloved holy cities. Muslims were being *******s long before we had to invade the middle east, and they will be *******s after we've left, you just have an excuse now.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    What idiots like Tom Tancredo do not realise is that fundamentalist leaders like Bin Laden want us to threaten and bomb Mecca. One bullet fired at the holiest of holies would have the whole Islamic world up in arms against the West. Goodbye civilisation as we know it.

    It is the same as invading Afghanistan and Iraq and helping and supplying Isreal. We are playing into Osama's/Hamas/Saddams hands. (although i suppose the correct phrase for saddam would be 'played' :p:)
    Did you people read the above, cos if you didnt read it again...

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    What idiots like Tom Tancredo do not realise is that fundamentalist leaders like Bin Laden want us to threaten and bomb Mecca. One bullet fired at the holiest of holies would have the whole Islamic world up in arms against the West. Goodbye civilisation as we know it.

    It is the same as invading Afghanistan and Iraq and helping and supplying Isreal. We are playing into Osama's/Hamas/Saddams hands. (although i suppose the correct phrase for saddam would be 'played' :p:)
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    Yes, your deterrent makes so much sense on an ethical moral and logical level :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Its not my deterrent is it?
    Im saying, a high number of Americans are stupid, this 'deterrent' makes sense considering how many Americans would agree and put forward this idea once they feel threatened by islam and become all patriotic.
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    I'm not condoning the bombing but I think a threat would be sufficient enough. Something has to be done about terrorism before more innocents are killed. We can't allow another 9/11 to happen.
    Yes but going to Iraq and killing many innocent people is allowed to happen, and yet to this very day the repercussions are still felt as the war is the cause of such unrest in the country, way more unrest than when Saddam was in power. Lets not get started on Afghanistan and Palestine...lets bomb them and see if theyre terrorists and if its children and women, we'll just say terrorists were chilling in the area...yes
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    (Original post by i-Citizen)
    Yes but going to Iraq and killing many innocent people is allowed to happen, and yet to this very day the repercussions are still felt as the war is the cause of such unrest in the country, way more unrest than when Saddam was in power. Lets not get started on Afghanistan and Palestine...lets bomb them and see if theyre terrorists and if its children and women, we'll just say terrorists were chilling in the area...yes
    I guess you are aware that since entering Iraq and Afghanistan bombings on home soil have gone down... Perhaps what we should be doing is keeping wars going in the middle east to protect our citizens here.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It is perfectly possible to shoot for fun with uzi's, I see no reason why not. There is a big difference between dressing your little child up like a suicide bomber and having fun shooting an uzi on a weekend. Of course they have military conscription, their population is rather small, it's the same across the world. To be honest i'm sick to death of Muslims harping on about Israel stealing their land, there is some messed up reason why each part of the desert has some sort of special meaning that means you should own it, but as far as i'm concered Muslims have ruined 99% of that area, that should be enough for them. Perhaps when you've made at least 1 of the Muslim states into a half decent place, where women aren't stoned in the streets and children aren't married to adults, the international community might well listen. Until then I can't think of a group of people we shouldn't give the land to more.
    First of all are you serious, you see it as fun that 5-7 year olds are shooting Uzis? Why are they shooting it, what possible enjoyment do people their age derive from it? Those are infantile settlers being trained and prepared at an early age to terrorize and ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their occupied land in the West Bank.

    Secondly can't you see it that when those Palestinians dress their children in a suicide bomber's attire they're doing it in a symbolic way to show that every generation will continue to support Hamas' policy of resistance because that's all they have, they don't have a conventional army to protect them from the IDF. It's no different to what those same Israeli children are being told every night by their parents about their relationship with Palestinians.

    Thirdly Muslims are not the only people "harping" about their stolen land, the continued occupation of Arab lands is against International Law, numerous unanimously supported United Nations resolutions and more importantly its against the peace deal that was signed in 1967.

    Whether Muslims ruin their country or make it into a western hegemonic paradise it is still their land and it is their choice to make.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I guess you are aware that since entering Iraq and Afghanistan bombings on home soil have gone down... Perhaps what we should be doing is keeping wars going in the middle east to protect our citizens here.
    What a sick mentality you have there, so innocent arab lives are not equal to our lives are they. Hmm interesting:rolleyes:

    I guess your aware then that the reason of the iraq war was not to protect our citizens, but to steal oil, be honest. Where are the weapons of mass destruction...syria?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Exactly, why should they? Because if they don't they stand to lose their beloved holy cities. Muslims were being *******s long before we had to invade the middle east, and they will be *******s after we've left, you just have an excuse now.
    This is just pathetic....
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    First of all are you serious, you see it as fun that 5-7 year olds are shooting Uzis? Why are they shooting it, what possible enjoyment do people their age derive from it? Those are infantile settlers being trained and prepared at an early age to terrorize and ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their occupied land in the West Bank.

    Secondly can't you see it that when those Palestinians dress their children in a suicide bomber's attire they're doing it in a symbolic way to show that every generation will continue to support Hamas' policy of resistance because that's all they have, they don't have a conventional army to protect them from the IDF. It's no different to what those same Israeli children are being told every night by their parents about their relationship with Palestinians.

    Thirdly Muslims are not the only people "harping" about their stolen land, the continued occupation of Arab lands is against International Law, numerous unanimously supported United Nations resolutions and more importantly its against the peace deal that was signed in 1967.

    Whether Muslims ruin their country or make it into a western hegemonic paradise it is still their land and it is their choice to make.
    I can't think of anything for fun for a young boy than shooting a gun. You can't on one hand say it's fine for Hamas supporters to dress up and train their children to support unconventional savage attacks on citizens, and then say it's wrong for Israel to traditionally protect itself through military conscription. I don't expect the Middle East to turn into a hedonistic Western style place, I expect them to produce something, anything, to the world. Very few if any noble prizes are awarded to Muslim countries, they are just holes of thinking on par with Africa which is seriously poor. Jews have one place on earth that is important to them, and Arabs can live a rather good life in this area. Muslims on the other hand have tons of holy sights and can't expect to own them all, especially when they can live there peacefully.
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    (Original post by i-Citizen)
    What a sick mentality you have there, so innocent arab lives are not equal to our lives are they. Hmm interesting

    I guess your aware then that the reason of the iraq war was not to protect our citizens, but to steal oil, be honest. Where are the weapons of mass destruction...syria?
    Yes, we went into Iraq to steal oil, despite the fact oil production from there has gone down and it isn't looking likely this will change soon seeing as no one wants to take the Iraq contract. As far as i'm concerned if those people want to support, fund, and habour their terrorist neighbors then it is they who should be dieing, not our innocent citizens. At least when we invade we aren't actively trying to kill civilians.
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    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    it's not going to happen because:
    1) to do so would be invoking the wrath of every single muslim, not even just the ones that practiced properly but pretty much everyone with a significant islamic heritage would be up in arms

    2) therefore the us woud be incredibly unpopular throughout europe and the western world, as these attacks are certain to cause social unrest in countries where there is any form of significant muslim minority (i can imagine france and the uk would be particularly pissed)

    3) as western countries go, the us tends to favour the military option signifcantly more than other countries [im thinking mainly european], and is signifcantly more conservative than most. even if by some miracle the us actually did it no other country would help because of the general attitude of the public in those countries [e.g. scandinavia]

    4) it would never get passed infancy in the us anyway, because while it is still a more conservative country than some others, liberal groups would protest massively, not to mention the large no. of muslims living in the country who would cause absolute mayhem in the us ever did it.
    therefore it is simply unfeasible for the united states to even consider and tancredo is a douche.

    /thread
    what a clever one we have here - see just getting grades doesnt make you intelligent, some people on TSR are really dumb with their dumb logic, why dont you people take a leaf out of geminis book
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I can't think of anything for fun for a young boy than shooting a gun. You can't on one hand say it's fine for Hamas supporters to dress up and train their children to support unconventional savage attacks on citizens, and then say it's wrong for Israel to traditionally protect itself through military conscription. I don't expect the Middle East to turn into a hedonistic Western style place, I expect them to produce something, anything, to the world. Very few if any noble prizes are awarded to Muslim countries, they are just holes of thinking on par with Africa which is seriously poor. Jews have one place on earth that is important to them, and Arabs can live a rather good life in this area. Muslims on the other hand have tons of holy sights and can't expect to own them all, especially when they can live there peacefully.
    Of course it is fine for Hamas supporters to dress in that way because NEWS FLASH they're under occupation if they were at peace then it would be a different issue. And you refer to unconventional savage attacks on citizens, that's not even a drop in the ocean to what the "civilized" IDF has done to the Palestinians.


    Arabs yes need to get their act together and get rid of their corrupt dictatorial western backed leaders, implement educational reform and return the Arab Muslim world to how it was during its Golden Age.

    Jews did have a place in Palestine but when they decided to carry out a Zionist oriented mass immigration programme of European Jews to a place they indigenous at the expense of the indigenous Palestinians then there's bound to be problems.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Of course it is fine for Hamas supporters to dress in that way because NEWS FLASH they're under occupation if they were at peace then it would be a different issue. And you refer to unconventional savage attacks on citizens, that's not even a drop in the ocean to what the "civilized" IDF has done to the Palestinians.


    Arabs yes need to get their act together and get rid of their corrupt dictatorial western backed leaders, implement educational reform and return the Arab Muslim world to how it was during its Golden Age.

    Jews did have a place in Palestine but when they decided to carry out a Zionist oriented mass immigration programme of European Jews to a place they indigenous at the expense of the indigenous Palestinians then there's bound to be problems.
    So, I take it you are against the existence of Pakistan? States are created and end, that is the passage of time. Palestine is not occupied at present. They have their own seperate state that they could build if they would just stop bombing Israeli's on a daily basis. I don't see why Jews should have to live under an Islamic state, they have never had their own state to own. Muslims on the other hand have a reasonably large part of the world to inhabit and live in the way they want.
 
 
 
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