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Tancredo: Threaten to bomb Muslim holy sites in retaliation Watch

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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    So, I take it you are against the existence of Pakistan? States are created and end, that is the passage of time. Palestine is not occupied at present. They have their own seperate state that they could build if they would just stop bombing Israeli's on a daily basis. I don't see why Jews should have to live under an Islamic state, they have never had their own state to own. Muslims on the other hand have a reasonably large part of the world to inhabit and live in the way they want.
    :rolleyes:

    So your understanding is:

    1)"Palestine" is not occupied

    2) They can have a state if they stop attacking Israel

    hmm i guess I'm debating a spokesperson for Likud.

    First of all any retard knows that Palestine is occupied and the reason Israel keeps getting attacked is because they won't allow Palestinians to establish a homeland.

    In your same logic it can be argued that Europe/Russia is a relatively large part of the world and is more than enough to accommodate Israeli Jews
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    (Original post by Diaz89)


    So your understanding is:

    1)"Palestine" is not occupied

    2) They can have a state if they stop attacking Israel

    hmm i guess I'm debating a spokesperson for Likud.

    First of all any retard knows that Palestine is occupied and the reason Israel keeps getting attacked is because they won't allow Palestinians to establish a homeland.

    In your same logic it can be argued that Europe/Russia is a relatively large part of the world and is more than enough to accommodate Israeli Jews
    How are they occupied? They are locked down because they keep smuggling weapons in to use on Israeli citizens. Of course Europe/Russia is big enough, Russia has given Jews a reasonably large part of Russia to dominate and they have turned it into a pretty nice place compared to the rest of Russia. However Jews have one place that is important and holy to them; therefore they get priority. If Christians trump up some reason why they deserve to have a state that takes half of Mecca will you accept that and split it?

    Should Pakistan exist? You talk about how terrible the mass migration to Israel is/was, but i'm guessing you don't mind the UK being swamped with Muslims?
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    Islamic country's aren't the civilized ones anyway so...
    Depends on your values. I could argue the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait are more civilised than parts of USA if I really wanted to.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    How are they occupied? They are locked down because they keep smuggling weapons in to use on Israeli citizens. Of course Europe/Russia is big enough, Russia has given Jews a reasonably large part of Russia to dominate and they have turned it into a pretty nice place compared to the rest of Russia. However Jews have one place that is important and holy to them; therefore they get priority. If Christians trump up some reason why they deserve to have a state that takes half of Mecca will you accept that and split it?

    Should Pakistan exist? You talk about how terrible the mass migration to Israel is/was, but i'm guessing you don't mind the UK being swamped with Muslims?
    Firstly the West Bank and Gaza were captured militarily after the 1967 war and still remain under Israeli Military occupation whereby Israel has total control over land/sea/air.They smuggle these weapons because they have no other way of defending themselves and making the world understand that they will sit by passively and wait for the Israelis to kindly give their land back.

    Those territories are referred to as occupied by the Palestinian, Arabs, UK,EU, USA, General Assembly of the United Nations, the Security Council of the United Nations , the International Court of Justice, the Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention , and the Israeli Supreme Court.


    Secondly that's had to be the worst hypothetical situation I've ever heard. Can't you see the difference between a land that has been for thousands of years lived in by a people of that region, Christian Arab and Muslims and Middle Eastern Jews with their very different culture and traditions. And then all of a sudden European Jews come and say that this is our holy land ? If this is the way it is then every Catholic has the right to say I want to live in the Vatican because it holy to me.

    Thirdly of course Pakistan has the right what has that got to do with anything. It was created as result of by people indigenous to that area living under British occupation and didn't want to be under Indian control unlike Israel where people came from an entirely different continent displaced millions of people and claim it to be their land because their holy book tells them so.

    And yeah the UK with a population of 60 million is really being swamped by the 1 million Muslims :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by AntiMonarchist)
    So a millions of people in Russia would have deserved to be nuked because they belong to the same state?
    Yes. If you ever been to Russia, you would agree with me.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Firstly the West Bank and Gaza were captured militarily after the 1967 war and still remain under Israeli Military occupation whereby Israel has total control over land/sea/air.They smuggle these weapons because they have no other way of defending themselves and making the world understand that they will sit by passively and wait for the Israelis to kindly give their land back.

    Those territories are referred to as occupied by the Palestinian, Arabs, UK,EU, USA, General Assembly of the United Nations, the Security Council of the United Nations , the International Court of Justice, the Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention , and the Israeli Supreme Court.


    Secondly that's had to be the worst hypothetical situation I've ever heard. Can't you see the difference between a land that has been for thousands of years lived in by a people of that region, Christian Arab and Muslims and Middle Eastern Jews with their very different culture and traditions. And then all of a sudden European Jews come and say that this is our holy land ? If this is the way it is then every Catholic has the right to say I want to live in the Vatican because it holy to me.

    Thirdly of course Pakistan has the right what has that got to do with anything. It was created as result of by people indigenous to that area living under British occupation and didn't want to be under Indian control unlike Israel where people came from an entirely different continent displaced millions of people and claim it to be their land because their holy book tells them so.

    And yeah the UK with a population of 60 million is really being swamped by the 1 million Muslims
    To be honest the argument is as simple as this: Arabs want the land, Jews want the land. Jews have no where else to go that is of importance to them. Arabs have the rest of the middle east to go to. Jews are more powerful. Therefore the land should go to them. Pakistan was created by allocating the Muslim population of India 12.5% of India; Muslims moved there from all over India, many from further away than most Jews would have moved to Jerusalem. So surely by your reasoning this country shouldn't exist either? I mean it was formed around a similar time to Israel as well... But I can see where you're coming from: Muslims can take land whever they please, nobody else can take land from Muslims if they have a claim to it. Right?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    That would be a good idea, but as we all know finding the root is next to impossible. The majority of extremists don't want the West to exist so any solution in which we exist is unacceptable.

    I am sorry but that is completely wrong. Firstly Osama and other fundamentalist leaders have said that the reasons they hate and attack the West is for half a century of American interventionist foreign policy in the middle east. Specifically Osama has named the basing of american troops on sacred Islamic holy land in Saudi Arabia, and the support and funding of the hated Saudi family as two main reasons behind the 9/11 attacks.

    Saying that they hate us because we are free and have mcdonalds is very naive. Their are specific reasons behind this hate, which terrorist leaders often cite in their videos. However the western media seems to neglect these parts showing only the bits where they say we are going to wipe out the west blah blah blah. It makes people like you and me think that they attack us for no reason which is simply not true. I am not sympathising with these men, but i implore you to watch some of the videos so as to understand. Even taking a look into the last 50 years of Middle Eastern history and politics makes it plainly obvious why men like Osama Bin Laden have taken up arms against the West.

    What we are doing over there now is just breeding more and more hate. Just because we have made it difficult for the terrorist to attack us doesn't mean they wont. Are we going to have to stay there forever, making things worse and woorse until the whole of the middle east turns against us? Or should we pull out now, offer all middle eastern countries free trade with us and pump all of the billions of pounds we are wasting on a war into the defence of our shores?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    To be honest the argument is as simple as this: Arabs want the land, Jews want the land. Jews have no where else to go that is of importance to them. Arabs have the rest of the middle east to go to. Jews are more powerful.
    So people that have lived there for hundreds maybe even thousands of years have no right to their land? And Zionists from Russia and America have equal right as the indegenous to that land?

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Pakistan was created by allocating the Muslim population of India 12.5% of India; Muslims moved there from all over India, many from further away than most Jews would have moved to Jerusalem. So surely by your reasoning this country shouldn't exist either? I mean it was formed around a similar time to Israel as well... But I can see where you're coming from: Muslims can take land whever they please, nobody else can take land from Muslims if they have a claim to it. Right?
    Pakistan is a different senario. Firstly it was people that have lived in that reigon for hundreds of years and were all South Asians. The Zionist that came to Palestine were Europeans, Russians, Americans etc. The population exchange that occured was agreed by both sides and was done voluntarly, no such thing happened in Palestine. Both Pakistan ad India are now states as a result of this agreement. After the Zionists came to Palestine, they created a state and then occupied the rest of Historical Palestine and are now colonising that occupied area into Israel.
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    So people that have lived there for hundreds maybe even thousands of years have no right to their land? And Zionists from Russia and America have equal right as the indegenous to that land?



    Pakistan is a different senario. Firstly it was people that have lived in that reigon for hundreds of years and were all South Asians. The Zionist that came to Palestine were Europeans, Russians, Americans etc. The population exchange that occured was agreed by both sides and was done voluntarly, no such thing happened in Palestine. Both Pakistan ad India are now states as a result of this agreement. After the Zionists came to Palestine, they created a state and then occupied the rest of Historical Palestine and are now colonising that occupied area into Israel.
    Don't make me laugh, the Jews have occupied that land in one way or another for thousands and thousands of years, long before Islam was ever dreamed up in fact. They were essentially a stateless race, and there was no where that they had more of a right to ownership that Israel.

    If the India/Pakistan split was so amicable why are they still such bitter enemies today? Advocating and endorsing a 2 state solution in one area of the world because it benefits Muslims, then denouncing it in another area of the world because it doesn't benefit Muslims, is a bit hypocritical.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    I am sorry but that is completely wrong. Firstly Osama and other fundamentalist leaders have said that the reasons they hate and attack the West is for half a century of American interventionist foreign policy in the middle east. Specifically Osama has named the basing of american troops on sacred Islamic holy land in Saudi Arabia, and the support and funding of the hated Saudi family as two main reasons behind the 9/11 attacks.

    Saying that they hate us because we are free and have mcdonalds is very naive. Their are specific reasons behind this hate, which terrorist leaders often cite in their videos. However the western media seems to neglect these parts showing only the bits where they say we are going to wipe out the west blah blah blah. It makes people like you and me think that they attack us for no reason which is simply not true. I am not sympathising with these men, but i implore you to watch some of the videos so as to understand. Even taking a look into the last 50 years of Middle Eastern history and politics makes it plainly obvious why men like Osama Bin Laden have taken up arms against the West.

    What we are doing over there now is just breeding more and more hate. Just because we have made it difficult for the terrorist to attack us doesn't mean they wont. Are we going to have to stay there forever, making things worse and woorse until the whole of the middle east turns against us? Or should we pull out now, offer all middle eastern countries free trade with us and pump all of the billions of pounds we are wasting on a war into the defence of our shores?
    I don't think they hate us because we are free and have mcdonalds. I think they hate us because of the lifestyles we lead. Because there had to be some way to respark tensions if Islam was ever going to dominate the world, which if your honest with yourself is the point of the all encompasing ideology its followers progress whever they may end up. We have tried backing down and it has just gotten us more attacks on our shores, we are now on the offensive and would you believe attacks have gone down.

    I would be more than happy if both sides in this matter kept out of each others business, only crossing paths to trade and such. However, this cannot be done. Europe now has a reasonably large population of Muslims who are all embeded into society. In this war of ideologies if we don't fight back we will lose, and with it everything we believe in. Muslims can essentially come to Europe and behave however they like, but try and do it the other way and see how long you live.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Don't make me laugh, the Jews have occupied that land in one way or another for thousands and thousands of years, long before Islam was ever dreamed up in fact. They were essentially a stateless race, and there was no where that they had more of a right to ownership that Israel.
    :wtf:

    In what way have Jews occupied Palestine for thousands of years? How can you occupy the land of which you consist of 1% of the population for at least the last thousand years? The fact is that the vast majority of Zionists came from Russia and large portion from Europe and America, in the 1900s.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    If the India/Pakistan split was so amicable why are they still such bitter enemies today? Advocating and endorsing a 2 state solution in one area of the world because it benefits Muslims, then denouncing it in another area of the world because it doesn't benefit Muslims, is a bit hypocritical.
    I've never passed judgement on the split or the two state solution so I don't know where you got the above from. I was just pointing out that they're completely different circumstances, so trying to compare one to another is just silly.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I don't think they hate us because we are free and have mcdonalds. I think they hate us because of the lifestyles we lead. Because there had to be some way to respark tensions if Islam was ever going to dominate the world, which if your honest with yourself is the point of the all encompasing ideology its followers progress whever they may end up. We have tried backing down and it has just gotten us more attacks on our shores, we are now on the offensive and would you believe attacks have gone down.
    Please do not be so naive. They do not attack us for the lifestyles we lead, that is what George Bush said. They have told us why they are attacking, and it is mostly to do with our foreign policy. Put your prejudice aside and look at this logically if you can.

    I would be more than happy if both sides in this matter kept out of each others business, only crossing paths to trade and such. However, this cannot be done. Europe now has a reasonably large population of Muslims who are all embeded into society. In this war of ideologies if we don't fight back we will lose, and with it everything we believe in. Muslims can essentially come to Europe and behave however they like, but try and do it the other way and see how long you live.

    You have a twisted view on the matter. Muslims come over to our countries to live yes and now and then Muslim fundamentalists will carry out atrocities and acts of terror resulting in innocent deaths. But we have been going over to their countries and killing their citizens for 60 years!, overthrowing their governments, enforcing sanctions that have killed hundreds of thousands and supporting dictators and tyrannical Royal families. We have been playing puppetmaster over there at the expense of millions of innocent lives. How can we be fighting back, when it was we who attcked themm first. Alot of Islamic immigrants come to Europe because the West has indirectly destroyed their countries. America is publicaly supporting two hugely unpopular dictatorships in the Middle East which has led to large scale hate against the West because we are indirectly taking away their freedoms by keeping them in power.

    How would you feel if Iran was a world superpower and for the last 50 years had been treating Europe as it's own little empire.



    No, you are toatally ignoring what i have said. So i will put it another way. Do you think it is a coincidence that the massive rise in Islamic terrorism coincides with American interventionism in the Middle east?
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    (Original post by Sakujo)


    In what way have Jews occupied Palestine for thousands of years? How can you occupy the land of which you consist of 1% of the population for at least the last thousand years? The fact is that the vast majority of Zionists came from Russia and large portion from Europe and America, in the 1900s.



    I've never passed judgement on the split or the two state solution so I don't know where you got the above from. I was just pointing out that they're completely different circumstances, so trying to compare one to another is just silly.
    Jews have been there for thousands of years as it is a holy sight to them. Of course Jews migrated and moved around but that was generally always percieved as their home. Saying they have no right to it because they were out bred is rather ludacrous. If the Jews were going to choose a homeland that was the obvious place to make it.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Jews have been there for thousands of years as it is a holy sight to them. Of course Jews migrated and moved around but that was generally always percieved as their home. Saying they have no right to it because they were out bred is rather ludacrous. If the Jews were going to choose a homeland that was the obvious place to make it.
    Jews haven't just "moved around" as you suggest, they had no to very little presence in Palestine with the vast majority of Jews living in Russia and Europe and later on in America. They weren't out bred, the fact is they never consisted a size-able portion of the population in the first place and they can hardly call it their physical home. Also, while political Zionism was in its early phase many other solutions were suggested apart from Palestine. Many leading Zionists split from the main body when a proposal to settle Jews in Uganda came about, other suggestions include Albania. An active program for settlement of Paletine only came about in the 1850s and only became accepted in the 1920s, until then teh idea was ridiculed by mainstream Jews.
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    For those of you who don't know what Mecca is or can't imagine what bombing it would look like there is an illustration in the first post by me.
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    For those of you who don't know what Mecca is or can't imagine what bombing it would look like there is an illustration in the first post by me.

    That is well funnie innit lol!1!!!

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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    That is well funnie innit lol!1!!!

    It wasn't meant to be funny. It's a visual aid.
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    No, would give extremists too much support.
 
 
 
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