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Which football club has the most deluded set of fans? watch

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    (Original post by Stu Laverty)
    Come back when we're in administration, pal. Or relegated to League One. Whichever comes first (I'm betting we take the Leeds route of administration - leading to our relegation).

    Also, I'm offended other fans are saying people aside from Newcastle fans are deluded. They don't read the Daily Mail enough.
    We're halfway to both tbf
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    (Original post by V1NY)
    We're halfway to both tbf
    Nah, man, this year we're going to win the Championship and FA Cup. Next year the UEFA Cup, Premiership, Carling Cup and the year after that the quadruple :woo:

    Or in seriousness, probably just lower-mid-table Championship. Haven't decided which one yet.
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    (Original post by Ascient)
    Would you like to explain why style of football doesn't actually matter, then? And what is wrong with finding the means to the end just as important as the end it self.

    Say your mother's ambition in life was to make £1m. Would you tell her she was deluded if she didn't want to do it by prostituting herself but preferred to work her way up in a job and make it like that?

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Just a facetious example, of course, as harmless banter. Please don't take it seriously (anyone).
    Because football is a sport and not an art? Stylish sports are out there if you want to watch them: gymnastics, synchronised swimming and diving. To be honest, supporters from teams who play stylish football will always have some association to it whether it should be the aim or rule to how football is played, whilst those who do not have it, don't. If football was to be concerned with how results and matches are formulated, should it not be on the matter of good sportsmanship? To me, if a team plays attractive football but lack sportsmanship then it's nothing. My concern to the sporting burden of having to use stylish teams as a benchmark to refer to is one that shortens the lifespan of managers' tenures at clubs all because people can't stop creaming themselves over Barcelona, Arsenal etc.

    It's like Liverpool, they show you how they feel supporters should be like. If you wish to hold those views it's up to you but don't force it on others and expect other clubs to follow suit. Obviously I don't mean you in person but these concepts I've described above seem to be as dangerous as religious indoctrination. I did miss one though - having plenty of English players. Giving homegrown talent a chance to flourish irrespective of economics. An Arsenal supporter can profess about the desire to play stylish football, as much as a Liverpool supporter advocates brilliant atmospheres, and as much as a Spurs supporter states their policy for highlighting good British talent as critical to 'their way'.

    In an idea world you'd play the style of Barcelona, have the atmosphere of Liverpool, the sportsmanship of errr Zola FC, and will be full of English nationals.
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    (Original post by calvinuk)
    Oh, and we were robbed of a European cup, read up on it.
    So were Arsenal and, to a lesser extent, Chelsea.

    [/Opinion]
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    So were Arsenal and, to a lesser extent, Chelsea.

    [/Opinion]
    Arsenal should have beaten Barca in 2006, Liverpool should have beaten AC Milan in 2007 and Chelsea should have beaten United in 2008

    And we all know what happened in 2009 - we made Barca look ****ing superb.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Arsenal should have beaten Barca in 2006, Liverpool should have beaten AC Milan in 2007 and Chelsea should have beaten United in 2008
    Or Chelsea in 2005, Arsenal in 2002 (I think?) but at the end of the day it's all ifs, buts and maybes.

    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    And we all know what happened in 2009 - we made Barca look ****ing superb.
    I was going to pick you up on that soon after the final quoting your rant on how Stoke gave Chelsea two goals in the 88th and the 93rd minute but thought watching the final was probably enough punishment. It's about time Chelsea met Barca in the final. Starting to think a European Super League is becoming more ideal.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Or Chelsea in 2005, Arsenal in 2002 (I think?) but at the end of the day it's all ifs, buts and maybes.



    I was going to pick you up on that soon after the final quoting your rant on how Stoke gave Chelsea two goals in the 88th and the 93rd minute but thought watching the final was probably enough punishment. It's about time Chelsea met Barca in the final. Starting to think a European Super League is becoming more ideal.
    It should have been Chelsea in the 2009 final. Robbed by a referee that choked on the big occasion. You really have had rotten luck in the CL in recent years. Arguably the case with the England team too -goals in extra-time disallowed when they look legitimate, losing on pens which is a bit of a lottery but then again, maybe it isn't with the recoed we have....
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    Newcastle have the most deluded fans, the reasons have all been mentioned in this thread. They are the cause of their own downfall imo, which is ashame because I actually like them as a club. If they forget about hero's and all that jazz, get someone in who can do a proper job and build from the base up they'll have a chance to return.
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    (Original post by FK)
    Newcastle have the most deluded fans, the reasons have all been mentioned in this thread. They are the cause of their own downfall imo, which is ashame because I actually like them as a club. If they forget about hero's and all that jazz, get someone in who can do a proper job and build from the base up they'll have a chance to return.
    essentially, the cause of their downfall is an unbelievable amount of ineptitude in regard to ownership.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    essentially, the cause of their downfall is an unbelievable amount of ineptitude in regard to ownership.
    In recent times maybe, they still brought in the great Alan Shearer which really helped the situation.
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    (Original post by FK)
    Newcastle have the most deluded fans, the reasons have all been mentioned in this thread. They are the cause of their own downfall imo, which is ashame because I actually like them as a club. If they forget about hero's and all that jazz, get someone in who can do a proper job and build from the base up they'll have a chance to return.
    Going by history, there is no Newcastle manager in recent history (or probably in the entire history), that has done well as Newcastle manager unless they have had a prior affiliation with the club.

    The cause to our downfall isn't down to constantly hiring people like Keegan or Shearer, it's down to mismanagement - the ridiculous firing of Sir Bobby, the treatment of Keegan. Whether we hired Shearer or not, we would have likely gone down anyway, because Hughton was an even worse manager.

    The problem we've had is that no manager has been given the time to start from the base, because of mismanagement.
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    I'm sorry but what other club in the world, who are in the biggest relegation battle of their history would bring in a manager with 0, thats right 0 managerial experience. And don't tell me thats down to the ownership because there was nobody backing that appointment more then the fans. What better example of deluded can you ask for?

    I'm not having ago at Newcastle, but when responding to the question posed by the thread, your the first set of fans that jump to mind. As much as you guys hated Allardyce, you certainly wouldn't have been relegated under him, or even battling down there. But because he didn't fit in with the criteria of being a Newcastle manager you sacked him and it was downhill all the way from there.
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    (Original post by FK)
    I'm sorry but what other club in the world, who are in the biggest relegation battle of their history would bring in a manager with 0, thats right 0 managerial experience. And don't tell me thats down to the ownership because there was nobody backing that appointment more then the fans. What better example of deluded can you ask for?

    I'm not having ago at Newcastle, but when responding to the question posed by the thread, your the first set of fans that jump to mind. As much as you guys hated Allardyce, you certainly wouldn't have been relegated under him, or even battling down there. But because he didn't fit in with the criteria of being a Newcastle manager you sacked him and it was downhill all the way from there.
    West Ham - Giofranco Zola. Granted it wasn't the biggest relegation battle, but due to the tightness of the league they were a big possibility to go down and he steadied the ship and was one of the best managers last year. Yet people forget that Zola had a similar record to Shearer after just 8 games, gaining about 2 more points against arguably easier opposition in their first 8 games.

    The only reason Shearer was brought in was because: Hughton wanted a manager because he acknowledged that we would be going down without one; nobody else would touch the job due to the treatment of Keegan, Allardyce, etc. The only man willing to stand up and try and save the club was Shearer, and that's why he was hired. Of course we backed it, it was Alan Shearer - there's no way we wouldn't back it and he was the best, no the only, option other than just keeping Hughton and going down anyway.

    Under Allardyce we were shocking. I don't deny he should have been given more time, but a lot of the players that got us relegated were Allardyce signings. We were on a long slump down the table, players didn't know what position to play, and things were going very poorly at the time. Yet, when Allardyce was sacked, it was a shock to Newcastle fans. It's a misconception that we called for Keegan, because it was a surprise to us, and people forget we were cheering for Allardyce when we lost to Stoke right before his sacking.
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    (Original post by Stu Laverty)
    West Ham - Giofranco Zola. Granted it wasn't the biggest relegation battle, but due to the tightness of the league they were a big possibility to go down and he steadied the ship and was one of the best managers last year. Yet people forget that Zola had a similar record to Shearer after just 8 games, gaining about 2 more points against arguably easier opposition in their first 8 games.

    The only reason Shearer was brought in was because: Hughton wanted a manager because he acknowledged that we would be going down without one; nobody else would touch the job due to the treatment of Keegan, Allardyce, etc. The only man willing to stand up and try and save the club was Shearer, and that's why he was hired. Of course we backed it, it was Alan Shearer - there's no way we wouldn't back it and he was the best, no the only, option other than just keeping Hughton and going down anyway.

    Under Allardyce we were shocking. I don't deny he should have been given more time, but a lot of the players that got us relegated were Allardyce signings. We were on a long slump down the table, players didn't know what position to play, and things were going very poorly at the time. Yet, when Allardyce was sacked, it was a shock to Newcastle fans. It's a misconception that we called for Keegan, because it was a surprise to us, and people forget we were cheering for Allardyce when we lost to Stoke right before his sacking.
    Fair enough, but why are your fans still calling for Shearer when your now in the Championship and crying out for a manager with experience to 'steady the ship' and return you to the Premiership. This is not the right time for Shearer at Newcastle, you need a Steve Coppell type figure.
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    (Original post by FK)
    Fair enough, but why are your fans still calling for Shearer when your now in the Championship and crying out for a manager with experience to 'steady the ship' and return you to the Premiership. This is not the right time for Shearer at Newcastle, you need a Steve Coppell type figure.
    Again, because no other manager would touch the Newcastle job, and rightly so.
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    (Original post by FK)
    In recent times maybe, they still brought in the great Alan Shearer which really helped the situation.
    by which time, the damage had been done.
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    I have a theory that Spurs, City, and Everton all suffer to either greater or lesser degrees from "Big Club Syndrome." Rather like wanting to keep up with the Jones's, these clubs convince themselves they are bigger than they actually are due to close geographical proximity/rivalry with a genuinely big club. They feel it would be even more humiliating in the context of those rivalries to admit their true status, so they inflate their histories to a level somewhat relative to the local rival. This invariably fails. It's football's equivalent of an inferiority complex as I see it.
    That's massively unfair to Everton. Liverpool's history is nigh unmatched in the England game, but Everton's record stands out on it's own. 107 years of top-flight football, founder member of the league. Last 55 years in the top flight. 9 times Top Flight champions, 7 times runners up. 13 FA Cup Finals including 5 wins and a European Cup Winners Cup. You can't be anything other than massively impressed with what Everton have achieved since Moyes took over either, without even considering the constraints he is under, which make it doubly so.
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    Are people generally moving purposefully to black and white vision regarding what I write or simply becoming incapable of noticing? You've missed the point Steve. Totally.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Because football is a sport and not an art? Stylish sports are out there if you want to watch them: gymnastics, synchronised swimming and diving.
    The last time I checked, you didn't hold a monopoly on the meaning and components of a sport, so I don't accept that answer. There's nothing intrinsic to the meaning of the word sport that says winning at any cost is the name of the game. There's nothing that excludes different styles from its meaning. Indeed, Dictionary.com poses the following definition of a sport:
    diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
    What if I consider watching an aesthetically pleasing performance to be my definition of a 'pleasant pastime'?

    To be honest, supporters from teams who play stylish football will always have some association to it whether it should be the aim or rule to how football is played, whilst those who do not have it, don't.
    Perhaps this does subconsciously end up being the case, but it's a massive generalisation and doesn't really add much to the discussion. There are plenty of Arsenal fans baying for Wenger's blood and, conversely, there are plenty of Chelsea fans- including the owner of the club- who are willing to sacrifice success in favour of some style.

    My aesthetic appreciation of football most likely was aided by watching the likes of Bergkamp as a child, but even now at this age and of this sensibility, I can say that I'd prefer we carried on with things the way we are, rather than capitulate in the face of public pressure and start spending huge amounts and buying cynical scrotes to kick the opposition off the pitch.

    If football was to be concerned with how results and matches are formulated, should it not be on the matter of good sportsmanship? To me, if a team plays attractive football but lack sportsmanship then it's nothing. My concern to the sporting burden of having to use stylish teams as a benchmark to refer to is one that shortens the lifespan of managers' tenures at clubs all because people can't stop creaming themselves over Barcelona, Arsenal etc.
    That's not Barcelona or Arsenal's fault. I completely agree with you on the part of good sportmanship :yes: It's perhaps also worth noting that if we all abided by your initial definition/identification of a sport, then good sportmanship would become as rare as a virgin in the Playboy Mansion.

    It's like Liverpool, they show you how they feel supporters should be like. If you wish to hold those views it's up to you but don't force it on others and expect other clubs to follow suit. Obviously I don't mean you in person but these concepts I've described above seem to be as dangerous as religious indoctrination.
    As I said above to MC Ren, I'm not writing a manual on how anyone should support their club. On the contrary, it was him before, and you now, that seems to have a problem with how I support my club, so I would propound that you are actually the one that's attempting to indoctrinate, ironically enough.

    I did miss one though - having plenty of English players. Giving homegrown talent a chance to flourish irrespective of economics. An Arsenal supporter can profess about the desire to play stylish football, as much as a Liverpool supporter advocates brilliant atmospheres, and as much as a Spurs supporter states their policy for highlighting good British talent as critical to 'their way'.
    Why does nationality of players matter? English players aren't in the top teams because they're not good enough. Our youth systems and the way we nurture young talent is absolutely abysmal compared to their continental counterparts. They're not given a chance to flourish because the grassroots system is all wrong, though I'm very in favour of the way Trevor Brooking is going about alleviating that problem, but it's stupid of you to say they're not given a fair chance because of foreigners/outsiders. It always worries me when I people I think to be intelligent start voicing their peripheral Nationalist views, an almost latent xenophobia.

    In an idea world you'd play the style of Barcelona, have the atmosphere of Liverpool, the sportsmanship of errr Zola FC, and will be full of English nationals.
    That's not my ideal world.
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    Are people generally moving purposefully to black and white vision regarding what I write or simply becoming incapable of noticing? You've missed the point Steve. Totally.
    Even taking into account 'greater or lesser degree' it's very much on the far side of lesser degree when you are talking about Everton. If you simply remove Liverpool from English football history, Everton would be the 3rd most successful English side of all time. The same cannot be said for City if you remove United, and Spurs if you remove Arsenal, they just simply do not compare. The rivalry between Everton and Liverpool was borne out of their respective successes, how often have City and United fought out the top honoiurs of the game between them, and Arsenal/Spurs the same? It is not based on one club's success and the absence of success from the other. Has City/United or Arsenal/Spurs ever been anything like The Friendly Derby, has an entire stadium of both fans laughed at their other rivals in a Cup Final?

    I have not missed your point, indeed I agree with it point about City, and Spurs, just massively disagree with regards to Everton. I can see the evidence for it with respect to City and Spurs, but not with Everton.
 
 
 
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