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Which football club has the most deluded set of fans? Watch

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    I disagreed with what HP is saying about Everton too.

    But I'll forgive him for his being wrong because he's one of the better ones here on TSR.

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    (Original post by Ascient)
    What if I consider watching an aesthetically pleasing performance to be my definition of a 'pleasant pastime'?
    That's your prerogative.

    (Original post by Ascient)
    Perhaps this does subconsciously end up being the case, but it's a massive generalisation and doesn't really add much to the discussion. There are plenty of Arsenal fans baying for Wenger's blood and, conversely, there are plenty of Chelsea fans- including the owner of the club- who are willing to sacrifice success in favour of some style.
    I didn't mean all supporters but the select bunch that gives the stereotype. I know some Chelsea supporters who are willing to sacrifice success for style but I do wonder if they genuinely believe this or were just adopted by 'footballing evangelicals' who keep nagging at them about how **** their football team's football is. I personally don't. I've had enough of near-misses in the CL to last a life-time and if it means taking a leaf out of Wimbledon's book to win the damn thing then so be it. After a few years people won't give a **** about how boring you played. I don't see anyone castigating Porto or Greece still.


    (Original post by Ascient)
    My aesthetic appreciation of football most likely was aided by watching the likes of Bergkamp as a child, but even now at this age and of this sensibility, I can say that I'd prefer we carried on with things the way we are, rather than capitulate in the face of public pressure and start spending huge amounts and buying cynical scrotes to kick the opposition off the pitch.
    People prefer what they were brought up on to an extent.

    (Original post by Ascient)
    That's not Barcelona or Arsenal's fault. I completely agree with you on the part of good sportmanship It's perhaps also worth noting that if we all abided by your initial definition/identification of a sport, then good sportmanship would become as rare as a virgin in the Playboy Mansion.
    True but there are sports that are decent for sportsmanship - cricket, Red Bull Air Race etc. Usually these are sports that aren't commercially pimped. I have seen the Northern Irish league and every time I've watched that, it's good for sportsmanship. Just like other ideals, there's no harm in trying to aspire to good sportsmanship to separate yourselves from the rest. Didn't Plymouth Argyle do something about fining their own players if they dived?



    (Original post by Ascient)
    Why does nationality of players matter? English players aren't in the top teams because they're not good enough. Our youth systems and the way we nurture young talent is absolutely abysmal compared to their continental counterparts. They're not given a chance to flourish because the grassroots system is all wrong, though I'm very in favour of the way Trevor Brooking is going about alleviating that problem, but it's stupid of you to say they're not given a fair chance because of foreigners/outsiders. It always worries me when I people I think to be intelligent start voicing their peripheral Nationalist views, an almost latent xenophobia.

    They're not good enough but at youth level there is perhaps a case that they are being denied good chances of developing. We all know the youth structure is poor and the distance limit is a farce when you can fill up your team of foreign players completely but can't take an English-based player because he lives too far away. That's why I'd like to see a British Olympic team but those against it can forget about their teams joining our league. I'd hate for them to lose their special voting rights. Promoting your own citizens in things in life is not necessarily xenophobia itself. Look at the university system in America and compare it to England and then Scotland. English players are more expensive so are often denied opportunities, that they otherwise would have had, had they not been overpriced.

    I'd even wager that British managers are perhaps not given the chance to manager the big teams. Granted our managers are not as great as the Italians but when will Roy Hodgson or David Moyes take over a 'top four' club? I'd gladly have Hodgson at Chelsea.



    (Original post by Ascient)
    That's not my ideal world.

    I forgot to add: with plenty of players coming through the academy. It's not really an ideal world for me as such but it would stop the nagging minorities from various contingents whether it's Arsenal or Liverpool etc.
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    For the record I don't really believe in the nationality of the players issue but I can see why other people do.
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    I consider us easily the greatest club not to have won the trophy
    Well if you did extremely poor when you had a decent squad don't raise your hopes up in the upcoming future, Arsenal have little - no chance of winning the CL in at least the next 5 years, unless something drastic happens, and i can safetly assume the same with the PL. You may fluke the FA cup, but to be fair, i very much doubt that will happen either. This is all evident in the departure of that money grabbing pair Toure and Adebayor and players like Hleb, who realised there was nothing of value that could realistically be won at a currently mediocre team such as Arsenal.
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    Your point seems far too matter of fact for it to be taken seriously when you mention a window of five years scope, frankly. Calling us mediocre is also an overreaction to say the least.
 
 
 
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