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European Federation. watch

  • View Poll Results: Join a European Federation?
    Yes
    40.68%
    No
    59.32%

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    To me it doesn't matter who has the power as such, merely that the state excercises the wishes of the people as efficiently as possible. Clearly, to me at least, this would require bodies of various sizes ranging from the whole world right down to the individual having the freedom and power to govern themselves within the limits of the bodies above them, each smaller unit having more power, being more representative of, and governing less people than larger units. And this is quite close to what we have today.

    The only question we have to ask in relation to the EU is does a citizen of the UK have more, or less power over their lives as a whole by being part of a European state, or not. While in the past, smaller governmental units were more efficient due to logistical issues if nothing else, nowadays the goings on in Europe play a large part in our lives, be it quite indirectly.

    To take another example, if we see the EU as, in terms of size, roughly the same as the USA, we can ask, does a citizen of California have more, or less power if California is part of the USA. The answer is probably more power. And what are the differences between the California/USA duo to the UK/EU? Probably that culturally California is closer to the rest of the USA than the UK is to the rest of the EU.

    So our question is, is the culture divide in Europe so big that it would be less efficient for all of Europe to have a more centralised government that it currently does, and even if it does, is it worth centralising power anyway such that that cultural divide might be lessened over time?

    The way I like to think about a lot of the problems in the World is this. I ask myself,

    "If some aliens, superior in sophistication to ourselves saw our society, what would they think about it?"

    And I suppose the aliens would probably think it a bad idea that we are divided quite arbitrarily into all these groups of varying sizes, all vying against each other for power over one another when a lot of that effort could be used to further mankind as a whole. And so ultimately, that a kind of decentralised World Government is a goal for the human race that I think we should aim towards, and even if it is difficult now, a more united Europe would be a (small) step towards that goal.
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    *sighs dreamily and stares into the middle distance*
    I'd love it.

    EDIT: I like the red flag. The other flag, the one directly above me, is plain stupid HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR MUSLIMS HURRRRRRRRR DURRRRRRRRRRRRR.
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    (Original post by chidona)
    *sighs dreamily and stares into the middle distance*
    I'd love it.

    EDIT: I like the red flag. The other flag, the one directly above me, is plain stupid HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR MUSLIMS HURRRRRRRRR DURRRRRRRRRRRRR.
    I don't think you mean the one directly above you :p:
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    (Original post by Edenr)
    I don't think you mean the one directly above you :p:
    :shh:
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    :happy2: :happy2: EUROPEAN FEDERATION WITH BERLIN AS THE CAPITAL OF CULTURE!:happy2: :happy2:
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    Maybe what they should do is do what we did with the union flag and stack loads of national flags on top of each other. That would be one crazy looking flag.
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    Wouldn't this hypothetical federation need to become a military alliance of sorts? If so I think most Europeans would be apprehensive of re-structuring Europe to something that resembles it's pre-WWI state.
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    (Original post by sron)
    Wouldn't this hypothetical federation need to become a military alliance of sorts? If so I think most Europeans would be apprehensive of re-structuring Europe to something that resembles it's pre-WWI state.
    I think that's one of the main things that distinguishes a union of independent sovereign states from a single sovereign federal country. As it is now EU countries can go to war independently of other EU countries and have control over their own military forces. With a European federation, all armed forces would ultimately be under the control of the federal government. I'm sure different countries would have their own regiments or whatever but they would take orders from the central government rather than an individual state.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    I'm still at odds with your arguments. I don't think placing people into a political union (and an undemocratic, corrupt one, with growing police state tendencies) without their informed consent is the way to prevent wars or in-fighting in the future. Trouble in the future lies, perhaps not between european member states, but probably between rulers and people.

    Perhaps you could consider some of the less well advertised aspects of the EU until have the time to post.

    Like its new and growing paramilitary police force, the EU Gendarmerie Force (EGF), which the EU's own High Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy, says will cover "activities such as security and public order missions". What price civil unrest?

    And the EU's single area for justice, in which under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, its public prosecutor can request that a suspect is detained without trial for 6 months, renewable for 3 months again and again without limit.

    Admittedly I don't know enough about these subjects that you speak of. I will say that you are a wise woman. :o:
 
 
 
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