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Is it wrong that privately educated, middle classed people take most of the top jobs? watch

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    (Original post by LurkerintheDark)
    Very few working-class / lower middle-class people have been in a position to enjoy (?) these luxuries. I'd hate to dine in an excessively posh restraunt or go to the Royal Ascot; privately educated kids are perhaps more used to these environments than their less well-off counterparts, and so can probably fit in with greater ease. Surely everybody feels a little ill at ease when plunged into an alien situation. I guess a rich lass wouldn't be able to fit into a rough and ready working-class sort of environment...I dunno.
    I know, I know , they came because it was my birthday and my parents had been generous to pay for us...I invited some private school friends and state school friends, and the difference was quite striking. As for Royal Ascot, I had a spare ticket and all my private school friends were already going, so I invited along one of my state school friends instead...so you are right, the opportunities do not arise often. And at private school, because most people's parents are well off (some ridiculously so), and you're always going to each others' houses and meeting their parents, some of whom may be big players in business or finance...I suppose you just get used to meeting these people and not doubting yourself or feeling too overwhelmed.

    And your last point is true too. I'm not a snob, but I can't stand going anywhere where there's lots of working class people, because I feel my accent is too posh or something and I'll be targeted...some people did actually ask me why I was talking so poshly, was I taking the mick etc...lots of people were quite rude actually. And so yes, I feel much more comfortable in a more middle class environment, and that's just the truth.
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    Effort and williningess is all it takes. Only a couple of people who have been through state school and are training to or have become successful doctors.
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    (Original post by paella)
    Maybe because people who've gone to private schools want it more. For example, if you'e been to a state school with an average family; if you end up a highly paid barister with a far nicer house than you had when you were a kid you probably feel ******* great. But if you're like my cousins (so top of their proffesion parents, multi million pound house, expensive education) then you're going to want more than what you had as a kid, plus you're to some extent want to be as good, if not better your parents. However, if you want this you still have to be very good to get there.
    Or if your already rich you become complacent and relaxed with all your riches. If you're poor, you become as hungry as a starved wolf and work your arse off to become successful.
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    (Original post by paella)
    Maybe because people who've gone to private schools want it more.
    No, they just get it handed to them on a silver plate.
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    (Original post by Stomm)
    It all comes down to aspiration and opportunity. Most kids of working class families, or to be more precise their parents, never aspire to anything more than maybe owning a small satellite TV installation company. Education beyond being able to remember what your mates like to drink when it's your round seems superfluous, so grammar and certainly private schooling is never considered, heck even A-Levels are in most instances dismissed...


    And of course opportunity. If your parents can't afford to send you to a private school, let alone away to university then you aren't going to benefit from the advantages that these bring.


    You certainly cannot achieve much in this day and age without a degree, well not unless you happen to inherit a bucket full of cash or win the lottery and don't piss it all away in six months...


    So you can just about get on with basically pushy parents who are willing to scrimp and save to send you to uni, and coach you through your A-levels. Having the money to go to a private school makes it a bit easier, and I guess down the line the contacts might be handy (old boys network, etc...), but really it's the drive to succeed that is of paramount importance, as without it no amount of your parent's cash is going to help you...
    Wrong.

    Anyways, I think it comes down to more determination than anything. A working class family is less likely to give the encouragement needed, whereas for middle class families, it seems to be the only thing they encourage.
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    (Original post by IGX_RSV2)
    Wrong.
    So who do you know under the age of 25 who's on £100k+ a year without a degree, a pile of cash from their parents or just plain good luck?


    This obviously excluding footballers and any form of celebrity of course, the career choice of the pipe-dreaming air head...
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    No. They are clearly just more intelligent and hardworking.
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    (Original post by Stomm)
    So who do you know under the age of 25 who's on £100k+ a year without a degree, a pile of cash from their parents or just plain good luck?


    This obviously excluding footballers and any form of celebrity of course, the career choice of the pipe-dreaming air head...

    Plenty
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    No, they just get it handed to them on a silver plate.
    They still have to work for it - they aren't magicly at the top when they leave school. To be a top lawyer you have to be very good at Law, there are plenty of people who went to private school with my Dad who went to Oxbridge and never went anywhere with law because they weren't good at it. A few went somewhere, because they were at the top of the field. Equally, my Dad went to a top private school, from a middle class army family, dropped out of LSE and joined customs at the lowest grade in the Civil Service. He worked his way up from the bottom, and allthough very senior, his boss was some guy from a mining town who didn't go to university. Both positions were achieved on merit.

    It's not just handed to people, they have to work for it.
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    people are assuming firstly that everyone who goes to a private school is filthy rich with million of connections. this is just not true.

    my parents have put 5 of us through private school at great expense and have sacrificed a lot, so the assumptions people are making here are ridiculous.

    I'm sorry, but with our current labour government, if you are poor you get EMA so you can do A-Levels and all this money thrown at you when you go to university. It is middle class parents who get no benefits from this mean tested stuff, and they don't take into account how many children you have!

    Middle class pay the most taxes to send you to your state schools, but then if anyone went to a primary private school the government refuse to put lollipop ladies in the private school zone.

    If the 7% who are privately educated entered the state system, the government would be able to cope even less, and education would be even more rubbish.

    And finally, it is not wrong that privately educated, middle classes take the top jobs, it is inevitable...

    they have more aspirations... surrounded by doctors, lawyers, accountants
    the need to maintain their current standard of life is recognised (aspire for a well paying job)
    they are generally more confident & eloquent... (perform better at interview)
    find it easier to relate to adults in powerful positions (again, likely to perform better at interview)

    People need to stop the envy of people who go to private schools. It is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by paella)
    They still have to work for it - they aren't magicly at the top when they leave school. To be a top lawyer you have to be very good at Law,
    Or, alternatively, pay for private tutors throughout your education to virtually buy yourself top grades (this applies to any given subject, too).
    there are plenty of people who went to private school with my Dad who went to Oxbridge and never went anywhere with law because they weren't good at it. A few went somewhere, because they were at the top of the field. Equally, my Dad went to a top private school, from a middle class army family, dropped out of LSE and joined customs at the lowest grade in the Civil Service. He worked his way up from the bottom, and allthough very senior, his boss was some guy from a mining town who didn't go to university.
    So what? Your dad, and anybody who has been privately educated (or has been born into an economically stable family [with connections]) has it fair easier in accessing top jobs.
    It's not just handed to people, they have to work for it.
    Sometimes.
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    There are a myriad of reasons why privately educated middle class kids end up with the best jobs.

    1) Private education is better than state education. Fact. If parents can afford it and they care about their child's future why would they not want to best education for them?

    2) Middle classes work harder than the working classes. I was brought up on a council estate and when I was 14 moved to a nice middle class suburb. Not everyone who lives in the council estates are lazy work dodgers; many are decent people with decent enough jobs who are content with the low cost of mortgages and ease of maintainability that council houses offer. However, a lot of them do fit the stereotype. One thing I've noticed is that in the middle class suburb it is much quieter during the daytime hours than the council estate. This is because everyone is away working.

    3) Better connections. It's not what you know that gets you the job but who you know. Cronyism is rampant in high paying jobs. In fact, it is rampant in all sectors, even as low as the lowly shop assistant as I have found, but you're not going to make connections if you are working class.

    4) Better work ethic. Middle class parents are more likely to transfer a good work ethic to their children.

    5) Discrimination. I can fully understand there being a little bit of discrimination against those of a working class back ground in some private institutions. Of course, this is the opposite in many public institutions where white middle class males are discriminated against, but there are more high paying private jobs than public jobs.

    Of course it's not all merry in the middle classes. For one thing, middle class parents have to financially support their child through university whereas children of poorer parents have access to much higher loans, and grants as well. I get 90 a month in student loans which doesn't even cover a week's rent. My parents are expected to fork out thousands a year. I'm lucky because I'm an only child so my parents only have me to worry about, but the student loans company really shouldn't assume that middle class parents are automatically going to pay for all their child's expenses.

    And it's not even as if all children of middle class parents do well at school. Where I am from, it is mostly children of working class parents that have went to university. I know this goes against the nation's general trend but it happens. I know of plenty of middle class kids who are going to grow up to be total losers, unless they can control their alcohol and drug habits. Many are also doing apprenticeships for joinery, painting and plumbing, which to be fair aren't going to give them the big bucks. They will not manage to move out of their parents' house for a long time yet and when they do it will most likely be a step down the property ladder for them.

    Life is what you make of it and if you opportunities are brilliantly disguised as impossibilities.
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    I do think the inequality is not good for all society but I believe you are born into a family you do not choose it, the government tries to level it by having free-schools but the rich will always want something better for their childrena nd they have a right to. I see it just as life, we should all be thankful we are not born in africa......
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    So what? Your dad, and anybody who has been privately educated (or has been born into an economically stable family [with connections]) has it fair easier in accessing top jobs.
    No, my Dad had to work at it, from the bottom. No connections, nothing, not very good A-Levels or GCSE's.

    Likewise his boss went to a mining town comprehensive - no connections there.

    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Or, alternatively, pay for private tutors throughout your education to virtually buy yourself top grades (this applies to any given subject, too).
    True, I find it very bad. However, once they've got their First from Oxford, they're on their own. If you can't do the work, you will just get fired, end of.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Middle classes work harder than the working classes.
    Longer hours doesn't mean they're working any harder than someone doing shorter hours.

    (Original post by Smack)
    For one thing, middle class parents have to financially support their child through university whereas children of poorer parents have access to much higher loans
    because they have the money to, less well off families obviously do not.

    (Original post by Smack)
    I know of plenty of middle class kids who are going to grow up to be total losers, unless they can control their alcohol and drug habits. Many are also doing apprenticeships for joinery, painting and plumbing, which to be fair aren't going to give them the big bucks.
    Maybe that's what interests them. Why do you look down at apprenticeships? For some jobs that is the only way to learn.

    .
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    (Original post by Stomm)
    It all comes down to aspiration and opportunity. Most kids of working class families, or to be more precise their parents, never aspire to anything more than maybe owning a small satellite TV installation company. Education beyond being able to remember what your mates like to drink when it's your round seems superfluous, so grammar and certainly private schooling is never considered, heck even A-Levels are in most instances dismissed...


    And of course opportunity. If your parents can't afford to send you to a private school, let alone away to university then you aren't going to benefit from the advantages that these bring.


    You certainly cannot achieve much in this day and age without a degree, well not unless you happen to inherit a bucket full of cash or win the lottery and don't piss it all away in six months...
    So you can just about get on with basically pushy parents who are willing to scrimp and save to send you to uni, and coach you through your A-levels. Having the money to go to a private school makes it a bit easier, and I guess down the line the contacts might be handy (old boys network, etc...), but really it's the drive to succeed that is of paramount importance, as without it no amount of your parent's cash is going to help you...

    What a load of bull.
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    (Original post by IGX_RSV2)
    Longer hours doesn't mean they're working any harder than someone doing shorter hours.
    No but working long hours means you actually have a job unlike a lot of the people at my old council estate who didn't.

    because they have the money to, less well off families obviously do not.
    You're wrong in assuming that just because a family earns over X pounds per year they have enough free cash to fork out thousands for their child's university fees. You also forget that some people want to be independent of their parents, but for us middle class students who do not get much of a loan, and no grants, it is pretty much impossible unless we work long hours as well as do our degree. Whereas the students from poorer families that I know have a lot more money to spend on drink and drugs.

    Maybe that's what interests them. Why do you look down at apprenticeships? For some jobs that is the only way to learn.

    .
    I don't look down at apprenticeships.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    .

    You're wrong in assuming that just because a family earns over X pounds per year they have enough free cash to fork out thousands for their child's university fees.


    Well that extra xx amount of money has to be going somewhere that doesn't include living expenses ^^
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    There's a couple of issues here. I don't think that its wrong that privately educated people take the top jobs if private education makes them more qualified, the problem is at the root in terms of access to private education.

    Those privately educated people who go on to become successful don't have everything handed to them on a platter as some suggest. Yes they are priviliged to have access to a good education, but to get a good degree and to get to the top of their field requires a lot more than just this.

    What's unfair, is that we are often the product of what our parents achieved, if your parents are uneducated then this often makes it difficult for you to achieve a high standard of education (but not impossible), and often each generation builds on the generation before. This is something that is often seen in immigrants.

    However, I know some extremely successful people whos parents are practically illiterate and who come from some of the roughest, most dodgy areas. So becoming successful isn't reliant on your class/background, it can just be made a bit easier or harder.

    The fact is that if you are intelligent, hardworking and have the will to succeed then you most probably will be successful.
    • TSR Support Team
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    (Original post by IGX_RSV2)
    Well that extra xx amount of money has to be going somewhere that doesn't include living expenses ^^
    They might have a big mortgage or a large family or expensive bills or in a lot of debt.
 
 
 
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