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    I read a post by Wzz from a while back lamenting the amount of time people were devoting to worrying about IOT and wondering why they weren't looking further ahead to EFT.
    Looking ahead, my ultimate goal is to do the best I can do in flying training and therefore aim towards getting the seat that I want (jets, Harrier would be nice!). Now I'm fully prepared that only the best of the best get to do that, but I figure I might as well aim high.
    So what's the advice out there on doing as well as possible in EFT and beyond? I have about 12 hours, quite a long time ago split between tutors, tutors with big wings (vigilants) and bulldogs (I'm an oldie, for a pilot). Is it beneficial to try and get as many more hours in before I start EFT? Fly with the flying club at Cranwell for example? Or pay through the nose for some time with a private flying club? Is there studying I can do in advance? Things I can practice: Hand eye co-ordination? Spatial orientation? In what context and how best to practice these things if yes? I know there's not a lot of spare time in IOT, but I'm prepared to work my arse off to get that seat!
    Oh, and on a side note, I heard that there are separate measurement limits for jets, beyond those needed to get through OASC. I heard that there are maximum limits lower than the OASC maximums (being little might be a bonus for a change!), but are there minimums higher than the OASC minimums (in which case I'm probably screwed)?
    Now, before anyone gets offended, I am going in for pilot, so personally I'm interested in EFT, and I'm asking about EFT because that's what I'll (fingers crossed) be doing. Not because I don't realise that there are other jobs within the RAF, and that I think that the whole world revolves around pilots (That's a pre-emptive strike worthy of Bush!).
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    I'd take the opposite view to Wzz on that front. It came from meeting guys who wanted to be a prize winner on IOT and were working for that. Screw that - the prize is graduation. Similarly, having one eye on the next course when you've not even started the pass or fail course previous is, IMHO, daft.

    You have got a start date for IOT haven't you?
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    I'm going to take the middle ground between the two :p:

    I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking about the next step, or the step after that. But you can't let it detract from the present. I'm very conscious of the steps post-IOT for me, but I won't think/stress about them until I get there.
    In terms of EFT prep? I wouldn't have thought going flying would be best... You're only likely to get into bad habits that will be difficult to be trained out of. Getting your hands on the Tutor's FRCs and a cockpit poster could be advantageous. I know my friends who've gone from UAS to IOT>EFT have said that knowing their checks helped them feel more at home. But in the grand scheme of things, it didn't make too much difference, the guys who hadn't done UAS passed just as well as those who had.
    Whatever prep you do do [and I will admit to having done a little for post-IOT] don't let it takeaway from prep for the more immediate things.
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    (Original post by ProStacker)
    You have got a start date for IOT haven't you?
    Yes. The fact that I'm looking ahead to EFT doesn't mean that I'm not taking IOT prep seriously. However, in the weeks before IOT, I've got more free time than I will have whilst on IOT (so I hear). So if there's some EFT prep that will give me an advantage, now would be a good time to get some of that in alongside IOT prep.
    (Original post by ProStacker)
    ...guys who wanted to be a prize winner on IOT and were working for that. Screw that - the prize is graduation.
    I think you might as well aim high (and get used to being disappointed!)
    (Original post by ProStacker)
    Similarly, having one eye on the next course when you've not even started the pass or fail course previous is, IMHO, daft.
    Well, fair enough. Just the way I tackle things.
    (Original post by Drewski)
    Getting your hands on the Tutor's FRCs and a cockpit poster...
    Any idea how I might go about doing that? A quick Google turned up this but... not much else.
    (Original post by Drewski)
    Whatever prep you do do [and I will admit to having done a little for post-IOT] don't let it takeaway from prep for the more immediate things.
    No, that's good advice, and I won't let myself get (too) distracted
    Are you on IOT at the moment? (Just curious).
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    Eh, i'm suffering from forum incompetence I think: I posted a reply to this, it said 'error', so I tried again, it said 'you already posted that'. I tried again and it said my post would be moderated within about 5 minutes. An hour later, nothing, so I posted again and it seemed to appear on the bottom of the discussion. And now it's gone again. Am I doing something retarded?
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    God knows.


    PM me and I'll post it instead if you're having issues.
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    Right, anony_miss seems to be having issues, so here's her post:


    (Original post by anony_miss)
    (Original post by ProStacker)
    You have got a start date for IOT haven't you?
    Yes. The fact that I'm looking ahead to EFT doesn't mean that I'm not taking IOT prep seriously. However, in the weeks before IOT, I've got more free time than I will have whilst on IOT (so I hear). So if there's some EFT prep that will give me an advantage, now would be a good time to get some of that in alongside IOT prep.
    (Original post by ProStacker)
    ...guys who wanted to be a prize winner on IOT and were working for that. Screw that - the prize is graduation.
    I think you might as well aim high (and get used to being disappointed!)
    (Original post by ProStacker)
    Similarly, having one eye on the next course when you've not even started the pass or fail course previous is, IMHO, daft.
    Well, fair enough. Just the way I tackle things.
    (Original post by Drewski)
    Getting your hands on the Tutor's FRCs and a cockpit poster...
    Any idea how I might go about doing that? A quick Google turned up this but... not much else.
    (Original post by Drewski)
    Whatever prep you do do [and I will admit to having done a little for post-IOT] don't let it takeaway from prep for the more immediate things.
    No, that's good advice, and I won't let myself get (too) distracted
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    The answers about the Katana's FRCs seemed most sensible... Have you tried going to the Grob website and having a flick through? Maybe ebay for a cockpit poster...
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    You have been selective with the advice given - fair enough. I asked about IOT because this was your first post and I couldn't tell how far you were through from your post.

    You are about to attend a 30 week pass or fail course that is pretty challenging, yet you feel that you have the time and capacity to prepare for the next course after that? Thats mighty brave and if you have the capacity to deal with that, fair play to you. If you really think you've done everything you can to prepare for IOT, you probably haven't. You could go for another run, sort your kit, navigate somewhere by map.

    Aim high, but best to direct your efforts to best effect. Prizes at Cranwell don't count for a lot in the real RAF. You may also find yourself on a hold before EFT - plenty time then.
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    Hi ProStacker.
    I have also taken your advice on board. Perhaps if your post had been more balanced and less 'don't be daft, have you even got a place yet?' then I would have been able to acknowledge that more explictly. I'm not averse to constructive criticism, the keyword there being 'constructive'.
    I'm not going to let myself get too distracted from IOT prep. But that doesn't mean that having the FRCs on my desk and a cockpit poster on my wall isn't worth doing. And I don't think it's 'daft' to be looking ahead, because you're right, IOT prizes don't mean anything compared to the prize of getting the seat I want (or a seat at all), which is my eventual goal. I don't want to get 8 months down the line, only to find out that I should have been doing such-and-such all along to prepare for EFT. I was especially interested because Wzz (who I understand is a QFI) said in a post a while back:
    (Original post by Wzz)
    Perhaps rather than threads suggesting reading for IOT, training regimes for IOT fitness, and things to pack to take there, you should all spend a couple of days thinking about what comes after it. There's still enough of us here who can tell you all about professional training, and the chop rates through JATCC, EFT/BFT/AFT, FC trg etc are sobering.
    So I don't know whether that's just so Wzz's got something to talk about or whether it means I really should be looking ahead.
    I know that I have to pass IOT before I can even start EFT. I know that IOT is challenging. I'm preparing for it. I haven't finished my preparation nor will I. Nor probably would I ever if I had all the time in the world. I do believe however that I have the capacity to do 10 minutes a day EFT prep, if it's worth it in the long run. So that's all I was asking really: 'Is it worth doing any EFT prep alongside IOT prep? If so, what?' Perhaps I should have emphasised the first point more in my OP.
    I'm very aware that I will not have had as much flying experience (and it will be longer ago) than many joining from e.g. UAS backgrounds. Neither do I have access to all the knowledge, hints, tips and advice that seems to come from being in the UAS and/or knowing lots of people in the RAF/forces (I'm comparing myself here to people I met at OASC, and those likely to be starting on my IOT). So I'm just trying to get some inside knowledge about what's best.
    (Original post by ProStacker)
    Aim high, but best to direct your efforts to best effect.
    What is the best effect in your opinion? IOT? Which aspects? I haven't got (or had!) a lot of time, so any 'efficiency' tips would be welcome.
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    (Original post by anony_miss)
    So I don't know whether that's just so Wzz's got something to talk about or whether it means I really should be looking ahead.
    Well, I don't object to having my specialist subject near the top of the thread list, but you've got the gist of my post right. I'm not necessarily advocating trying to figure out half of the EFT syllabus before you get through IOT, but rather that people need a sensible understanding of how the various courses pan out.

    Yes, IOT is a pass/fail course, but it's remarkably difficult to fail. In my opinion, if you're fit, diligent, and enthusiastic then the staff there will get you through. It is rare for someone to fail because they simply haven't "got it;" that should have been weeded out at OASC.

    Preparation for IOT is relatively simple. Read the books on the reading list, buy the items on the kit list, and get as fit as you can. Do that and you've given yourself the best fighting chance you can.

    As far as failure rates go, during the time I was at IOT there was obviously 3 grads (from my senior course, the one ahead, then mine). Plenty of people were recoursed, but I don't believe you could do any sort of preparation that's going to guarantee you'll be able to pass the various critical points. I hope I'm getting my point across there! Anyway, during the 3 courses, one person failed outright and was sent home. We lost about another one or 2 through medical issues, and probably had a couple of dozen recoursees at various times. Out of a course of 60-70, one of 120 and one of 130, that means one person out of 310 failed. Our 3 IOT courses had a pass rate of 99.68%.

    I'd be interested to hear from more recent graduates as to the current pass rate. You need to prepare, but it's not the defining point of your career.

    Now, as far as flying courses go, I was getting the impression that aircrew candidates here were throwing 110% effort into fitness regimes, air power chat, that sort of thing, and not really appreciating what came next. EFT has a failure rate much higher than IOT, although I don't have anything other than colloquial numbers to hand so they'll have to do. From my EFT, we lost probably about 10-15% through outright failure. From my IOT course of 22 pilots, only 7 were selected for FJ training.

    Onwards from that, BFJT has a historical chop rate of around 20% at worst. But, during "tight" times in the FJ world, like now, not everyone's guaranteed a seat in a Hawk. Picking a course at random that I knew someone on, of 14 pilots, they only got 8 through to FJ AFT. The historical chop rate on FJ AFT is probably slightly more than 20-25%.

    When I went through FJ TW, we lost over 40% of our course, and similar numbers on the course behind us. Recently a mate's popped through with 25% of his course binned. The failure rate there's a solid 25-30% at times, I'd say.

    What I was and am attempting to encourage is a healthy respect for the demands of the flying training system. Yes, you can go on and fly Harriers, but it'll take more than a good IOT report.
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    When I went through FJ TW, we lost over 40% of our course, and similar numbers on the course behind us. Recently a mate's popped through with 25% of his course binned. The failure rate there's a solid 25-30% at times, I'd say.
    What I was and am attempting to encourage is a healthy respect for the demands of the flying training system. Yes, you can go on and fly Harriers, but it'll take more than a good IOT report.
    Yea, I've heard quite a bit about the chop rates (first hand, unfortunately ) from a couple of mates. I definitely have a healthy respect. Is there anything particular you can suggest I should be doing alongside IOT prep? (Or just living in fear?!)
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    (Original post by anony_miss)
    Is it beneficial to try and get as many more hours in before I start EFT? Fly with the flying club at Cranwell for example? Or pay through the nose for some time with a private flying club?
    Don't go anywhere near a private club. Depending on your exact level of experience, which I presume is quite low (no offence!), chances are you'll just pick up a bunch of civilian procedures and techniques which aren't really very similar to what you'll be taught on EFT. When you're relatively inexperienced, you're still remembering techniques as "lists of events," and when you see a similar picture in a Tutor you'll want to reproduce what you did in a Cessna. Don't confuse yourself! The best you could hope for is a slight feeling of familiarity when you're doing the basics up until circuit flying, but not much beyond that.

    Time in the air is useful in some ways, and flying one of the G115s they have at Cranwell would probably be relatively useful, especially if some of the ex-QFIs I know are still flying there too! Likewise, gliding is sufficiently different from powered flying to not confuse the matter, and is useful for learning the smoothness and light touch on the controls you'll want to cultivate.

    So, by all means speak to a service flying club, especially Cranwell based on their fleet, but don't spend a fortune. If you've got the time, gliding is cheaper and perhaps more useful.

    I presume you're currently serving; I can't think of many ways you could have flown a Bulldog, be old enough to do that, and still be just about to start as a pilot? In that case, get yourself in for a visit to your nearest EFT Sqn. And, if you've got the time, go and visit Linton. I wouldn't bother too much about going further up the chain as while it's interesting to see what life's like as a front line Tornado guy, it's not going to help your prep much.

    A visit to an EFT Sqn and the chance to speak to some people there and on BFJT will give you a good idea of the workload and what goes on.

    (Original post by anony_miss)
    Is there studying I can do in advance? Things I can practice: Hand eye co-ordination? Spatial orientation? In what context and how best to practice these things if yes?
    Buy an Xbox and a DS! You might find that doesn't interface too well with IOT though, but seriously, there's not a lot you can do to boost these sort of skills. Stay fit, even in the dull academic environment of IOT, and by all means play a bunch of video games when you're holding. Don't become one of those people who buys an enormous PC, a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and the Tutor models for it, then flies out of Cranwell with their mate playing ATC. That's undoubtedly taking things a step too far.

    Also, if you get ahold of a set of FRCs and a cockpit, fine, but don't put too much trust into learning lists of checks. The checks may well be vocalised slightly differently, and they might be broken up by actions, radio calls, interaction with your liney, etc etc. If you memorise a list of checks now, you'll struggle to forget that list to learn the correct sequence. However, learning your way around the cockpit wouldn't hurt, so getting ahold of one of the Tutor training CDs and a cockpit poster wouldn't be too bad. I can't imagine you'd be able to get FRCs anyway, unless someone were to photocopy a set for you; and as they're RESTRICTED, I wouldn't recommend you ask!

    (Original post by anony_miss)
    Oh, and on a side note, I heard that there are separate measurement limits for jets, beyond those needed to get through OASC. I heard that there are maximum limits lower than the OASC maximums (being little might be a bonus for a change!), but are there minimums higher than the OASC minimums (in which case I'm probably screwed)?
    No, if you fit at OASC, you should fit everything. It's normally the other way around that OASC stuffs people, where they won't fit in one jet so aren't allowed in to fly anything.

    However, OASC's not always the most accurate arbiter of measurements. I've had guys I've known arrive at Valley, have one incredibly uncomfortable sim, then find out their buttock-knee length is way out for the Hawk (which is pretty tiny). Long legs, or long thighs are the biggest problem really.

    (Original post by anony_miss)
    Not because I don't realise that there are other jobs within the RAF, and that I think that the whole world revolves around pilots
    Should though, shouldn't it...?
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    (Original post by anony_miss)
    Yea, I've heard quite a bit about the chop rates (first hand, unfortunately ) from a couple of mates. I definitely have a healthy respect. Is there anything particular you can suggest I should be doing alongside IOT prep? (Or just living in fear?!)
    It's difficult, really. If you want some training materials to read, then there used to be a Tutor training CD which contained the equivalent of the aircrew manual and some info about checks and systems etc; that wouldn't hurt. If you're from any sort of technical background then you shouldn't have too much trouble understanding most of the switchology and how the thing works.

    The holy grail would be an EFT Student Study Guide, though. If it's not changed format, then it's a breakdown of the various things you'll learn in the form of exercises throughout the course. Each topic (stalling, climbing & descending, low flying, whatever) is covered in quite a lot of detail and background, with all the techniques explained. You might not be able to glean much from the later stuff without doing the earlier stuff in the air, but it'd be very useful to learn the concepts, the techniques and just the way things are described.
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    I presume you're currently serving; I can't think of many ways you could have flown a Bulldog, be old enough to do that, and still be just about to start as a pilot?

    Not quite.

    AEFs were still using Bulldogs until 2000, so an ATC or CCF cdt could still have flown one then and be just under the age requirement.

    I'm 23 - quite nearly 24 - and flew in Bulldogs on AEF a number of times as a brand new spacey. Had I gone for pilot, and got the IOT date I have, I would be within [current] limits for age.

    But yeah, it'd be rare!
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    AEFs were still using Bulldogs until 2000, so an ATC or CCF cdt could still have flown one then and be just under the age requirement.
    I'm 23 - quite nearly 24 - and flew in Bulldogs on AEF a number of times as a brand new spacey. Had I gone for pilot, and got the IOT date I have, I would be within [current] limits for age.
    *Just squeezes in*
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    That makes sense. If you flew EFT in a Bulldog it puts you a fair chunk above the age limit..!
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    And thanks for all the advice Wzz, I will take it all on board.
    (Original post by Wzz)
    Long legs, or long thighs are the biggest problem really.
    I'm learning to feel the love for my short stubby limbs
    (Original post by Wzz)
    In that case, get yourself in for a visit to your nearest EFT Sqn. And, if you've got the time, go and visit Linton.
    I'm not currently serving, just old (relatively ) Can I still do this? I haven't got much time left tbh because I'm off to the Alps soon for a little getaway, but I'm sure I could squeeze it in somewhere. My interviewer at OASC asked why I hadn't been on any base visits: first I heard of it, I didn't know you could! Is it too late to do it through the AFCO now?
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    Probably not, you'd just need to get ahold of someone as a point of contact. Try the AFCO first, and if that doesn't work someone can probably steer you towards the Adj's number at your nearest EFT Sqn.
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    Just wondering, but what happens if you are cut out of one oif the flying courses? I asked a guy on the raf careers phone line and he said if you get selected to be a pilot you are very likely to pass and shouldnt fail.
 
 
 
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