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Is David Cameron to the very left of the Tory paty? Watch

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    (Original post by L i b)
    The two are very much interconnected.
    Apathy can be connected to cynicism, but not necessarily. I don't think people are cynical enough. I think the country would be much better off if people stopped believing what they are told without question, as most of them seem to do.

    I'm afraid that's exactly what I say. Corrupt? Do you seriously believe that our politicians are corrupt on any meaningful scale? I'm not talking about fiddling a few thousand on expenses here, but something actually significant?
    Yes, Lib, I believe politicians are corrupt on a very meaningful scale, and I'm not talking about fiddling their expenses at all.

    If you go into politics in this country to be self-serving, you'll be thoroughly disappointed. The pay is ****, for one.
    Funny how so many people now make careers out of politics. How many have ever had a real career outside politics? The pay is of course supplemented by extremely generous expenses and pensions that most of us can only wonder at. To be a quisling is self-serving in Britain today.

    Cameron himself is a good example of a career politician. I doubt money is his main motivation, but if serving the people is I'm along way from being convinced.
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    Cameron's no Thatcherite. Or at least he pretends not to be, which is just as suspect.
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    No. It's a persona that Cameron thinks will give the Tories a fresher, more liberal and populist image. Once he's elected the right-wing policies will come out in force :whip:
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    Cameron's no Thatcherite. Or at least he pretends not to be, which is just as suspect.
    Well, he isn't going to be advocating less regualtion at the moment, that would lose him votes - whatever his beliefs. But back in 2005 or 2006 he did speak about how the markets should be deregulated...
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    Here is a few snippets of why people are voting Conservative form the Conservative website - "It's a party that can stand firm for our diversity", "Modern conservatives are realistic and progressive", "They are progressive and visionary in outlook".

    Liberals loved New Labour so much they're going to re-elect it.
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    I didn't know that when Conservatives have meetings they have specific seating orders?

    Left side Cameron 'Guy 1' 'Guy 2' 'Guy 3' 'Guy 4' ... Right side

    :ninja:
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    I think it's been pretty well-established that David Cameron's political ideology is one of amorphous nothingness. To an even greater extent than Blair, his public statements are dictated by what will play well in the press and in opinion polls.

    Privately, I suspect he's just an old-style Thatcherite, though.
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    Socially he may be more liberal, but he's in no way to the left of the party, he's definately got more in common with the right wing monetarist Thatcher than the left of Tory one nation conservatives Heath and Macmillan.

    Cameron is to the right of Blair and I'd class Blair to the right of Heath, so I'd say he's in no way left.
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    No. It's a persona that Cameron thinks will give the Tories a fresher, more liberal and populist image. Once he's elected the right-wing policies will come out in force :whip:
    Why do you believe that? Labour supporters used to say that Old Labour would come back with force once Tony Blair took office. They were very disappointed, just like Tories will be with Cameron. Only I think the country will be much more angry when Cameron doesn't deliver.

    (Original post by respect_campaign)
    Cameron is to the right of Blair and I'd class Blair to the right of Heath, so I'd say he's in no way left.
    What? With a bloated welfare state and a 50% tax rate that he has no plans to change!
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    Why do you believe that? Labour supporters used to say that Old Labour would come back with force once Tony Blair took office. They were very disappointed, just like Tories will be with Cameron. Only I think the country will be much more angry when Cameron doesn't deliver.



    What? With a bloated welfare state and a 50% tax rate that he has no plans to change!
    I believe the tax rate under Heath was 83%, I may be wrong though. Heath was to the left of Tory, but still right wing, and Blair was definately to the right of that, and Cameron is definately to the right of Blair in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    No. It's a persona that Cameron thinks will give the Tories a fresher, more liberal and populist image. Once he's elected the right-wing policies will come out in force :whip:
    Here really is hoping! Anything that injects some much abated common sense into the way this country is run is a plus IMO.

    Rich
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    Daniel Hannan for tory leadership! :woo:
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    Daniel Hannan for tory leadership! :woo:
    :yes:
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    Source*

    You're not often wrong Lib, but in this instance you are. Cameron is clearly a Blairite - such spending plans would be incompatible with Thatcherism.

    *This would of been David Cameron's decision - believing otherwise is delusional.
    do you realize that that link is about 2 years out of date?
    Alot has changed since then, like the recession, we will no longer match Labour spening totals, or you have missed this in the news completely? Other than Health and International development, we have said that we will reduce the size of the debt. I'm suprised no one has picked you up on posting a link that is 2 years out of date...
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    do you realize that that link is about 2 years out of date?
    Alot has changed since then, like the recession, we will no longer match Labour spening totals, or you have missed this in the news completely? Other than Health and International development, we have said that we will reduce the size of the debt. I'm suprised no one has picked you up on posting a link that is 2 years out of date...
    Perhaps because in the not too distant past David Cameron was aping New Labour; claims that Gordon Brown and David Cameron are fundamentally different politically because their espoused political beliefs only diverged because of the deepest recession since the Great depression is thin ice to be treading. The reality is no conservative would of ever offered to copy Labours spending plans. David Cameron is not a conservative. For want of a better word - he is a new labourite. Why do you think the same people who were backing Tony Blair now back David Cameron?

    I'm surprised that you have not yet picked up on the glorious news let me spell it out for you from the Times itself "At a dinner with newspaper executives on the eve of his address, he took the comparison a step further. “I am the heir to Blair,” he said. If his hosts were in any doubt about what they had heard, Mr Cameron repeated the mantra. He also said that a Cameron Tory Government would not reverse all of the Blairite reforms in the public services."

    Now hopefully you understand where we're coming from in saying that Cameron is no different to New Labour. Arguing for a few percent less public debt is a distraction - both belong to the same ideology.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    Perhaps because in the not too distant past David Cameron was aping New Labour; claims that Gordon Brown and David Cameron are fundamentally different politically because their espoused political beliefs only diverged because of the deepest recession since the Great depression is thin ice to be treading. The reality is no conservative would of ever offered to copy Labours spending plans. David Cameron is not a conservative. For want of a better word - he is a new labourite. Why do you think the same people who were backing Tony Blair now back David Cameron?

    I'm surprised that you have not yet picked up on the glorious news let me spell it out for you from the Times itself "At a dinner with newspaper executives on the eve of his address, he took the comparison a step further. “I am the heir to Blair,” he said. If his hosts were in any doubt about what they had heard, Mr Cameron repeated the mantra. He also said that a Cameron Tory Government would not reverse all of the Blairite reforms in the public services."

    Now hopefully you understand where we're coming from in saying that Cameron is no different to New Labour. Arguing for a few percent less public debt is a distraction - both belong to the same ideology.
    Interesting...

    And I am also not interested in what Camerons policy is AFTER a crisis happens. What is important is that BEFORE the crisis happened, he would have spent in the same way as Gordon Brown. The only consolation would be that the Thatcherites in the party will oppose public spending far more than the socialists in the new labour party, if indeed there are any left.

    I'm also interested to see what his social policy is like, but I'm not expecting much.
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    No. Left is most certainly the wrong word. Obviously he's trying to appeal to centrist new Labour voters by demonstrating a commitment to 'green' policies and 'social change,' but he's not approaching these topics from a 'leftist' standpoint. His idea of a 'broken Britain' and emphasis on a strong family unit as a remedy to this strikes me as typical Conservative rhetoric. Who he's chosen to align the Conservative party to in Europe is more concrete evidence of how Cameron's really representing the usual, eurosceptic, Tory line.

    In terms of economic policy Cameron's Tories and New Labour are much of the same muchness. Does anyone planning to vote Tory in the next election expect any significant change in dealing with the recession from David Cameron?
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    (Original post by miss_world)
    Does anyone planning to vote Tory in the next election expect any significant change in dealing with the recession from David Cameron?
    Maybe not from Cameron himself, but there are some free-market tories, and there are some labour socialists - and that could still make a significant difference.

    This will become less and less relevant as time goes by though. I can't imagine as many socialists today join labour as a few decades ago, and I can't imagine as many market liberals join the tories as a few decades ago. The parties really are becoming more and more similar. :sad:
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Remember, Cameron is fundamentally a Thatcherite and have given a lot of time to the sort of liberal economic theory that the likes of IDS and Howard would not.

    So what's 'left wing' about him? I'm not quite sure. That he's an environmentalist? That transcends ideology. As indeed do more of his social views.
    I would not say he is Thatcherite, he is from the conservative tradition that predates Thatcherism. Thatcher was part of the New Right which caused a huge shift in the conservative party as well as he country, Cameron is a one nation Tory or a 'wet', wheras Thatcher was a 'dry'.

    You might say it is social conservatism; support of institutions such as family, church etc which build a cohesive society. Note that the conservatives are always talking about 'responsibility' and britains broken society.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    Cameron's whatever he needs to be to get votes :nn:
    this. he'll do and say anything to be popular. which means he comes across more left than what people typically think of as conservative (and more left than many in his party) but we wont know where he truly lis on the political spectrum until he's PM tbh. whether he is more left-wing than thatcher is a different thing. there are definate similarities in policy. but we must remember thatcher was never as right-wing as you get anyway.
 
 
 
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