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    (Original post by Amanda)
    Whenever we get universal healthcare (never) I will stop. :p:
    When its passed or when its introduced? :P

    How are your nationalised industries doing?
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    (Original post by Shayke)
    Ah yeah, I see.

    Either way... they say 'poor' students will not be worse off.

    So, is it right to assume that my ~£4000 extra being paid will just go to someone else to increase their grants by ~£4000

    Struggling to see a point in increase in fees other than to redistribute wealth. Communist *******s.

    Yup i dont mind paying 7k a year if it goes to improve my course such as better labs/ more lab/lecture time etc. However if it only goes to increase grants for other students I really wont be happy everyone should pay the same tution fees be it by loans or savings no one should get a grant for fees.

    Yes they should be given enough money to live on but we should all have to pay back the same amount for the cost of the course when we graduate.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Your fees are decided by what the system was when you start.
    So people who started uni before top up fees were introduced didn't have to pay them. And when the fees are increased, anyone already in uni won't have to pay the extra.

    So the fees you will pay will be whatever system is in place in September next year (assuming you don't take a gap year etc).



    Pretty sure I've read that the government wouldn't cover any fee increases with the loan. Could be wrong though.
    Reference?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    When its passed or when its introduced? :P

    How are your nationalised industries doing?
    Passed.

    Haha sssshhh. :p:
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    (Original post by Shayke)
    Yeah, but its still gotta be paid back... =|
    No it doesn't.
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    Personally, I'm very much in support of this.

    It's about shifting the burden from the taxpayer to the student, and also properly financing the universities in this country. We cannot feasibly increase student numbers, cut funding, and maintain the world-class education offered. It's simply not possible; the funding has to come from somewhere, and seeing as the student benefits from a degree with increased remuneration, why not let the student cover the cost of their own degree.

    Personally I'm all for going down the U.S. system of higher education.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Reference?
    The first bit is pretty well known, its what happened when tuition fees where introduced. I doubt they'd change that system.

    The second bit, as I said, I may be wrong about. From a quick google, it looks like what I read was on about maintenance loans not increasing, so I probably am wrong about that. I don't really have time to do a proper look.

    But even if I am wrong, the government are struggling with student loans as it is (shown by the maintenance loan not increasing), so I have no idea how they'd fund loans of £7k per person.
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    (Original post by Aack)
    Degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on, in most cases.
    Wrong
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    (Original post by Shayke)
    As soon as 2013...

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6727699.ece



    So, they're going to raise the fees, pretty much as another 'rich tax' to take money off those who have parents that worked hard their whole damn lives.

    My dad worked his ass off his whole life and earns a nice salary. Which effectively means I'm going to get punished for it. In some cases, its better off if you're parents don't earn jack all.

    Anyway, anyone else got any opinions?
    :ditto:
    Me and and my firends completely agree with this. Being 'middle class' is being in the worst position university wise as the rich can afford uni easily despite any rises and the 'low income' get a whole array of help including grants and bursaries from both the governement (i.e. our parents taxes) AND universities plus nearly all scholarships offered are for those from lower income background; when you see the amount of financial help offered to these people it becomes slightly ridiculous. Lower income people also get bigger loans available due to means testing so if you're middle class especially if your parents are barely going to financially help, you're basically screwed and its not just fair at all. With these new fee rises you can bet the middle class will be worst off in the end.
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    I wonder where the money will come from to support all of those families earning under 35k..
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    (Original post by MichaelG)
    I wonder where the money will come from to support all of those families earning under 35k..
    The 'middle class' as always :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    You can't understand that because earlier in the thread you mentioned people paying £1.5k because of tuition fee grants. There are no grants.

    And I seriously doubt anyone will get £4k bursaries. That's just too much for anyone to cope with giving out. Anyway, its up to the unis what bursaries they give out, not the governments. So I don't see what that has to do with tuition fees.
    I can understand it, the tuition fee grant bit was a mistake, as I said, I haven't looked into it much because I'm not eligible for any help whatsoever, and now realise I was wrong. Trust me, I understand now. Was just wrong on that little point.

    According to the article, no one under £35k will be worse off. That means they will be getting £4k bursaries or loans. It has to. There's no other way you can't be worse off when the fee is increased by £4k. Sure, if its a loan, the government will get it back. But its still gotta be paid first.

    (Original post by MichaelG)
    I wonder where the money will come from to support all of those families earning under 35k..
    From the £4000 extra that I and many others will be paying =]

    And the communist *******s thing was a joke. By the way.
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    (Original post by Ykljdsfdg)
    Talk about keeping the rich rich.

    It's bad enough that the good poor students have to do BMAT, UKCAT etc etc and all those tests required to get into top degrees like medicine and law. Like, you can get BMAT coaches and support books that only rich people can afford. Not to mention things like UCAS coaches.

    Will there be finding for poorer people then? What about parents who are rich by definition, but have debts/many dependence etc. Their children may miss out on the top degrees because of this. Oh and something else- no all parents help their children.
    No, read the article =] The poor will not be worse off.

    The 'rich' will pay the £7000, the 'poor' will not (pay as much).

    The 'rich' also have to do UKCAT, BMAT and GAMSAT for medicine, as do the 'poor'

    The decent book for the UKCAT costs something like £10-£20, which a 'poor' person on £30 EMA a week could afford.

    Yes, there will be more funding for 'poor' people, as there always has. And it says specifically in the article, people under £35,000 will NOT be worse off.

    No, not all parents help their children. This is true across the board however, which is where the EMA dispute comes in. Which, well, let's not get into that.

    Sorry to offend if I did, but jesus.
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    Well as long as I can borrow more from the gov, I don't really care. Looks like I'm in the worst place finance wise tho - parents earn about 70,000 before tax but due to number of kids we they just get by, certainly don't have enough money to pay tuition fees.
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    (Original post by .ACS.)
    Personally, I'm very much in support of this.

    It's about shifting the burden from the taxpayer to the student, and also properly financing the universities in this country. We cannot feasibly increase student numbers, cut funding, and maintain the world-class education offered. It's simply not possible; the funding has to come from somewhere, and seeing as the student benefits from a degree with increased remuneration, why not let the student cover the cost of their own degree.

    Personally I'm all for going down the U.S. system of higher education.
    Yeah, I sort of agree with that, so its more student funded. But if loans have to go up to £7,000 per student every year, that's a much greater burden on the taxpayer, at least to start with. With a deficit of around £13 billion this year (if I recall correctly) it's interesting to wonder where the initial loans will come from...
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    (Original post by Toxic Tears)
    The 'middle class' as always :rolleyes:
    Surely those earning over 35k rather than the middle class - that would be pretty hard to target.
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    (Original post by Toxic Tears)
    :ditto:
    Me and and my firends completely agree with this. Being 'middle class' is being in the worst position university wise as the rich can afford uni easily despite any rises and the 'low income' get a whole array of help including grants and bursaries from both the governement (i.e. our parents taxes) AND universities plus nearly all scholarships offered are for those from lower income background; when you see the amount of financial help offered to these people it becomes slightly ridiculous. Lower income people also get bigger loans available due to means testing so if you're middle class especially if your parents are barely going to financially help, you're basically screwed and its not just fair at all. With these new fee rises you can bet the middle class will be worst off in the end.
    :ditto:

    Highly unfair. A little while back my parents worked out that our family would be better off if my mum quit her job and was on the dole. We would get more benefits for my dad being disable, my mum being jobless, and then me, than my mum actually earnt in a year. Add to that I would have way more help for Uni than I do now...You get screwed over for trying to help yourself.

    Heres a laugh for you all - I get a bursary run by my uni for help towards housing costs. I get £60/term - that doesn't even cover one weeks rent. My boyfriend gets £400/term - 2 months rent paid for him.

    And yes, not all parents help their children. My parents give me £20/month. One of my housemates gets £150/month. Yet I am seen as to be in a better position as my grandparents are giving me money every term, which I cannot touch until I leave university. They're giving me the money mainly to avoid inheritance tax. Yes, bloody lucky, and I am seriously grateful for that money, but I fail to see how that puts me in a better position now, when I'm paying for everything off my own back, and they're getting half their rent paid every month, or another one is getting all her rent paid, and £100 off the rents. Doesn't quite seem fair how the government expects so much to paid for the parents, and expect the parents to help their children.

    [/rant]
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    (Original post by Shayke)
    Yeah, I sort of agree with that, so its more student funded.But if loans have to go up to £7,000 per student every year, that's a much greater burden on the taxpayer, at least to start with.

    With a deficit of around £13 billion this year (if I recall correctly) it's interesting to wonder where the initial loans will come from...
    The same place it comes from now? You don't believe unis will get an extra 4k per person do you?

    Add a zero to that, the DMO and NS&I.
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    I'm glad I just about miss it.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    The first bit is pretty well known, its what happened when tuition fees where introduced. I doubt they'd change that system.
    Pretty well known by conjecture 'it happened last time so it must happen next time'.
 
 
 
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