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    (Original post by Amanda)
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    Dude, £7000 is ridiculously expensive for something that should be free. I can barely afford to go to university the price it is at the moment, and that's including all the grants I'd get. I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but £7000 is definitely not cheap :p:
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    I don't see the problem...everyone, regardless of income, gets a tuition fee loan to cover it so it wouldn't discourage people from going to uni if they can do some simple maths (Friedman permanent income hypothesis, anyone?). Also you don't pay real interest nor do you have to start paying your loan off until you're earning over £15000 a year.

    I don't see how people would 'consider not applying' unless they are doing a ******* useless degree.
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    (Original post by Joy Division)
    I don't see the problem...everyone, regardless of income, gets a tuition fee loan to cover it so it wouldn't discourage people from going to uni if they can do some simple maths.

    Also you don't pay real interest nor do you have to start paying until you're earning over £15000 a year.
    Because they don't think a degree is worth 85k?

    4.8% isn't real interest now?
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Dude, £7000 is ridiculously expensive for something that should be free. I can barely afford to go to university the price it is at the moment, and that's including all the grants I'd get. I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but £7000 is definitely not cheap :p:
    How would a move to 8k fees change affordability?

    Its more affordable now than four years ago.
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    (Original post by Joy Division)
    I don't see the problem...everyone, regardless of income, gets a tuition fee loan to cover it so it wouldn't discourage people from going to uni if they can do some simple maths (Friedman permanent income hypothesis, anyone?). Also you don't pay real interest nor do you have to start paying your loan off until you're earning over £15000 a year.

    I don't see how people would 'consider not applying' unless they are doing a ******* useless degree.
    Weren't they considering freezing tuition fee loans? As in, not raising them to match the fees.

    I wouldn't be able to afford it, and thus wouldn't be able to apply. You'd still have to pay the amount back when you're earning over £15000, and it'd be considerably more than the amount we have to pay back now. I can definitely see why people, myself included, "have a problem".
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How would a move to 8k fees change affordability?

    Its more affordable now than four years ago.
    So raising tuition fees from £3,500 to £7000 is not changing affordability considerably? How can it not be? :/

    Even under the presumption that they'd raise grants etc (which is questionable) they'd still be the pay-back issue.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    The same place it comes from now? You don't believe unis will get an extra 4k per person do you?

    Add a zero to that, the DMO and NS&I.
    No I don't believe that. Ive said that time and time again in this thread how I believe it will just fund the extra £4k that the government will be helping the 'poor' people out with. Although, they should see some of it.
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    (Original post by Amanda)
    Excuse me for not having the pound symbol on my keyboard. :p:

    Either way it's still cheap. Private unis here are like $25,000+ a year.
    You pay less tax though so it all evens out.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    So raising tuition fees from £3,500 to £7000 is not changing affordability considerably? How can it not be? :/

    Even under the presumption that they'd raise grants etc (which is questionable) they'd still be the pay-back issue.
    Because its not payable upfront.

    Thats not a question of affordability but of value. Its not like it has to be paid off.
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    I support the increased fees. Id like to see the best universities go private at some point too.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    I support the increased fees. Id like to see the best universities go private at some point too.
    Death of social mobility, I'd say.

    How nice.
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    (Original post by Shayke)
    No I don't believe that. Ive said that time and time again in this thread how I believe it will just fund the extra £4k that the government will be helping the 'poor' people out with. Although, they should see some of it.
    What extra 4k for 'the poor'? everyone pays the same fees.
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    (Original post by blinkbelle)
    That's what they're proposing...
    I don't think you read the OP properly. It said that courses would increase in fees the higher ones household income was. Thus the rich would pay up to £7k, whilst others would pay less. It was also suggested that some courses be made entirely free, a la pre-1998.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    What extra 4k for 'the poor'? everyone pays the same fees.
    Everyone pays the same tuition fees.

    But, in order for 'poor' people to not be worse off, it would mean they would get an extra £4,000 somewhere to cover the increase in order to make them not worse off
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    I don't think you read the OP properly. It said that courses would increase in fees the higher ones household income was. Thus the rich would pay up to £7k, whilst others would pay less.
    Which paragraph?
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    (Original post by Shayke)
    Everyone pays the same tuition fees.

    But, in order for 'poor' people to not be worse off, it would mean they would get an extra £4,000 somewhere to cover the increase in order to make them not worse off
    They wouldn't be worse off if the ceiling was lifted...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Which paragraph?
    The whole last section:

    (Original post by Times)
    A condition of freeing universities to charge higher fees is likely to be that better-off students are charged a levy on fees to subsidise bursaries for those on lower incomes. Further cross-subsidy could be provided by money from overseas students and alumni.

    Luke Johnson, the Channel 4 chairman and entrepreneur who is a member of Oxford’s fundraising committee, said: “It is inevitable there will be higher fees and more independence, but it has to go hand in hand with much more for bursaries. There is a disproportionate number of private school undergraduates at Oxford and it is by no means ideal.”

    Alan Ryan, retiring warden of New College, Oxford, said his college was drawing up bursary plans to ensure no family on an income of less than £35,000 would be worse off if fees were raised from their current level.

    Birmingham University, meanwhile, is one of those planning in the long term to offer “needs-blind” admission, in which bursaries for poor students are provided mainly from a levy on better-off students.

    Last week Alan Milburn, the former cabinet minister, wrote in a report commissioned by Gordon Brown that such an arrangement could promote social mobility by drawing more people from poorer families into university.

    Tomorrow, in a speech to Universities UK, an association of vice-chancellors, Mandelson is expected to take up Milburn’s theme and warn that institutions need to step up efforts to bring in more students from poor backgrounds through their admission and bursary policies.

    Some universities are already making preparations for an increase. Exeter is understood to be one of several preparing an aggressive strategy of charging fees of at least £7,000. It will also offer generous bursaries in addition to non-means-tested awards — including sports and academic scholarships — to lure the best students regardless of income.

    The result will be far higher debts for those whose studies are not covered by bursaries. Recent research by Universities UK has found that raising fees to £7,000 would bring average debts of £32,400, compared with the current £20,000.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Death of social mobility, I'd say.

    How nice.
    There is that. But its needed to make our top universities internationally competitive.
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    The whole last section:
    Don't say that anywhere. It says a lot about increases in bursaries but they would pay the same fees.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    There is that. But its needed to make our top universities internationally competitive.
    So, international reputation is more important than ensuring every child has an equal chance, and opportunity, to go to university?

    I can only hope you're being facetious, because that's, frankly, a hideous way of thinking.
 
 
 
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