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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    So, international reputation is more important than ensuring every child has an equal chance, and opportunity, to go to university?

    I can only hope you're being facetious, because that's, frankly, a hideous way of thinking.
    Only if you like equality and we aren't cuban.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Don't say that anywhere. It says a lot about increases in bursaries but they would pay the same fees.
    But in a de facto sense the rich would end up actually paying (or accruing a considerable ammount more debt) than the poor. You're right, though, that the actual fees themselves are the same.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Only if you like equality and we aren't cuban.
    I knew Britain was a capitalist country, but this is shocking. You're effectively suggesting that only the rich should be able to go to university. This isn't just about equality, but social engineering. I can't help being born into a family that isn't economically stable, this means I shouldn't be able to have the same quality of education as another guy? Total ****.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    I support the increased fees. Id like to see the best universities go private at some point too.
    :ditto:
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    I'll have finished any sort of education I pursue by 2013, hopefully they'll hike up fees to impossible levels so theres less competition for me later on
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    But in a de facto sense the rich would end up actually paying (or accruing a considerable ammount more debt) than the poor. You're right, though, that the actual fees themselves are the same.
    The whole 4k wouldn't go that way either, I'd guess about 15-20%.

    The poor that didn't go to university are subsidising you so its swings and roundabouts.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    I knew Britain was a capitalist country, but this is shocking. You're effectively suggesting that only the rich should be able to go to university. This isn't just about equality, but social engineering. I can't help being born into a family that isn't economically stable, this means I shouldn't be able to have the same quality of education as another guy? Total ****.
    How does a move from 3k to 9k/year change the affordability of uni?

    If it doesn't then it doesn't exclude anyone but reduces taxes for the poor who couldn't go to uni. Whats bad about that?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How does a move from 3k to 9k/year change the affordability of uni?

    If it doesn't then it doesn't exclude anyone but reduces taxes for the poor who couldn't go to uni. Whats bad about that?
    It obviously does, how can you contest that? I can just about afford 3 and a half grand, I can't afford 9 grand. :confused:

    6 grand is a massive difference, despite what the rich would lead you to believe.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    It obviously does, how can you contest that? I can just about afford 3 and a half grand, I can't afford 9 grand. :confused:

    6 grand is a massive difference, despite what the rich would lead you to believe.
    You pay 3,500 in advance?
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    I support the increased fees. Id like to see the best universities go private at some point too.
    By this do you mean that the government doesn't pay the tuition for students? If yes then only rich people will be able to to go to the top universities.
    About it being increased to £7000 per year, I think it's a stupid idea and I am not even being affected by this. Excluding the maintenance loan anyone going to University during that time will be in around £21,000 in debt. I think they should be capped at £3,500.
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    (Original post by Darkness123)
    By this do you mean that the government doesn't pay the tuition for students? If yes then only rich people will be able to to go to the top universities.

    I think they should be capped at £3,500.
    Bursaries would still exist, its not just the rich who go to college in the states.

    Why 3,500 not 2,000 or 20,000?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    You pay 3,500 in advance?
    Are grants etc going to be raised in line with tuition fees, then?
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Are grants etc going to be raised in line with tuition fees, then?
    I asked you a question;

    Do you pay 3,500 in advance?

    I will answer this, but I don't want my question skipping :P
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I asked you a question;

    Do you pay 3,500 in advance?

    I will answer this, but I don't want my question skipping :P
    No, but that isn't really that relevant, there's still the issue of post-uni debt.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Bursaries would still exist, its not just the rich who go to college in the states.

    Why 3,500 not 2,000 or 20,000?
    Then the bursaries will also need to be increases as well because I think a lot of students use it to pay of accommodation and other stuff.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    No, but that isn't really that relevant, there's still the issue of post-uni debt.
    Well it is, you said the affordability changes with the move to higher fees.

    (Original post by 35mm_)
    I can just about afford 3 and a half grand, I can't afford 9 grand.
    I'm questioning how you can (or even need to) afford 3,500 but can't afford 9k.

    Post uni debt payments are dependent on earnings (as you well know).

    Someone comes from a poor family so cant get to uni because of upfront fees thats one thing, but if that kid gets a 250k/year job because of the degree thats another. Whats the amount of debt after uni got to do with whether someones family is rich, average or poor?

    Why should person A on 22k/year pay more and thus have a worse standard of living than person B on 22,900 because person A's parents had higher earnings?

    -------------------

    In answer to the other question, I would expect bursaries would go up (since there is a bigger pot of money), not proportionally though. And why should they? The affordability of uni wouldnt have changed.
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    Don't panic thought people as it hasn't happened yet

    Also, what if after doing your 1st year paying 3500 or so a year, they jumped up to asking for 7000 in fees for your 2nd year?

    i'd hope in the worst case scenario, they would bring such a scheme in really gradually, i'm not gonna panic until i know what's happening

    on the plus side, they should work on that free course thing though

    i reckon a lot of degrees could be taught in 2 years rather than 3 which i imagine could solve a lot of the problems for many concerned...a few unis have started doing this already (google it)
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    (Original post by Darkness123)
    Then the bursaries will also need to be increases as well because I think a lot of students use it to pay of accommodation and other stuff.
    Why would bursaries also have to increase? accommodation/'other stuff' wouldn't increase in cost because fees rise...
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    So, international reputation is more important than ensuring every child has an equal chance, and opportunity, to go to university?

    I can only hope you're being facetious, because that's, frankly, a hideous way of thinking.
    Im not saying all universities should be private... Obviously all universities being inaccessible to the poor is just plain bad for our economy.

    Am I saying that quality of research produced is more important than which university people can go to, the answer is yes.

    It would be equivalent to schooling. Not everybody can go to Eton, thats life.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    In answer to the other question, I would expect bursaries would go up (since there is a bigger pot of money), not proportionally though. And why should they? The affordability of uni wouldnt have changed.
    The rest of your post if fair enough, but this part is total rubbish. If grants don't rise proportionally to the tuition fees then of course it affects affordability. You have to pay your fees, either with a grant or your own cash. No grant, or if the grant doesn't cover the whole fee, then then equals your own cash, many of which don't have such means.
 
 
 
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