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    (Original post by yoshifumu)
    i'm not sure how much it'd take to overtrain, but you have more than enough going for you if your doing hiit and weights 3 times a week.

    my recommendation is do some light cardio on you're rest days. it'll spike your metabolism a little bit, but will also speed up recovery from weights and all that.
    It's just HIIT is only for 20 minutes usually, and I don't really feel it's enough... I've only very recently started exercising so the intensity isn't that high, although I can gradually increase it.. Would it not be beneficial to run in the morning? It makes me feel good after, but I wouldn't want to do it if could slow down my weight loss..
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    (Original post by Shomm)
    It's just HIIT is only for 20 minutes usually, and I don't really feel it's enough... I've only very recently started exercising so the intensity isn't that high, although I can gradually increase it.. Would it not be beneficial to run in the morning? It makes me feel good after, but I wouldn't want to do it if could slow down my weight loss..
    i doubt it'll slow your weight loss. i'm more worried about injury, because if your overtraining, your body will eventually just give up.

    I prefer not to do HIIT on a treadmill because theres less danger and its easier to push yourself, i recommend the same for you.

    then you can have no worries and push yourself 100%. by the end of the 20 minutes, you should be near puking. and trust me, you will have done enough.
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    (Original post by yoshifumu)
    i doubt it'll slow your weight loss. i'm more worried about injury, because if your overtraining, your body will eventually just give up.

    I prefer not to do HIIT on a treadmill because theres less danger and its easier to push yourself, i recommend the same for you.

    then you can have no worries and push yourself 100%. by the end of the 20 minutes, you should be near puking. and trust me, you will have done enough.
    I'm not really sure where else I could do the HIIT to be honest, I'd be too embarassed to do it outside on the street..
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    sorry what is HIIT?
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    (Original post by Shomm)
    I'm not really sure where else I could do the HIIT to be honest, I'd be too embarassed to do it outside on the street..
    if you have a garden? you can do it even if you have 5-10 metres of room, it's just a bit awkward sometimes.

    i'd do it in the park or a sports hall, but if your embarrased then...
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    (Original post by touran22)
    sorry what is HIIT?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-in...erval_training

    although it doesn;t necessarily have to be intervalled with medium intensity work.

    you can do 100% effort, and then seperate it with complete rest.

    Try run as hard as you can as fast as you can for a minute, then rest for 30 seconds. do it 6 times. you will be on your knees by the end of it.
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    (Original post by yoshifumu)
    good results take time, but you can still see some in a month, and within 8 weeks you should definitely notice the difference.

    You could be overtraining, i don't think cardio that leaves you 'knackered' 4-5 times a week is necesarily good for you. but tbh that depends on what you mean by knackered and how you perform.

    how often you do weights as well? and what kinda routine you on?

    the fat thing though, there is only one way to LOSE fat, and thats creating a calorie deficit. (you can find out how many calories you need using the harris-benedict equation) if your not eating 500-1000 below your bmr/maintenance rate then you aren't losing weight, or atleast not fast.

    exercise is only a supplement to raise your metabolism, making a deficit easier.
    Ah okay. Well I follow my own routine:
    In a week, I normally go to the gym twice/three times and go on a run twice as well. When I go to the gym, I normally do 40 minutes cardio (rowing 5 minutes to warm up, tred-mill for the rest of it) then I move on to weight machines to work mostly on my back, chest, tri-cep areas. At home, I have a set of dumb bells (11kg ish) which I use as free weights to work my bicep, while also doing pushups/crunches every once in a while. When I go on a run, I tend to run for 50 minutes ish, 10 minutes with 5 minute breaks.
    Thanks for the tips, I'll try HIIT more strictly next time I use the tred-mill.
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    (Original post by touran22)
    sorry what is HIIT?

    High Intensity Interval Training

    warm up with a 4min jog on a treadmill.
    then run flat out for 20secs, then walk for 10secs. (repeat 10 times)
    jog for 1min to cool down.

    10 minute workout.
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    (Original post by Cristiano12)
    Ah okay. Well I follow my own routine:
    In a week, I normally go to the gym twice/three times and go on a run twice as well. When I go to the gym, I normally do 40 minutes cardio (rowing 5 minutes to warm up, tred-mill for the rest of it) then I move on to weight machines to work mostly on my back, chest, tri-cep areas. At home, I have a set of dumb bells (11kg ish) which I use as free weights to work my bicep, while also doing pushups/crunches every once in a while. When I go on a run, I tend to run for 50 minutes ish, 10 minutes with 5 minute breaks.
    Thanks for the tips, I'll try HIIT more strictly next time I use the tred-mill.
    for weights your better off following a standard routine like starting strength than doing your own thing.

    neglecting shoulders/legs etc is a rudimentary mistake that people often do. it's also sacrilege to most regular gym-goers.

    and your better off with free weights rather than machine weights.
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    I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this "losing muscle if you workout before you eat" malarky. You may deplete muscle cells of energy over the very short period of time but you don't 'burn'/kill them by not eating before doing a workout. By exercising in the morning before you eat you increase factors in the body that further increase the fat starving/muscle feeding state that you are in when you wake up in the first place.

    Aside from that, if you are doing something that puts your core under considerable pressure (usually cardio- running, rowing, etc) then eating before the workout is counter-productive, besides, you're more likely to empty your bowels by doing 20-30 minutes of hard running so it helps clear your system ready for breakfast.
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    Running and rowing do not put considerable pressure on your "core".

    I don't need my system or bowels cleared before I can eat breakfast.
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    (Original post by Zedd)
    I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this "losing muscle if you workout before you eat" malarky. You may deplete muscle cells of energy over the very short period of time but you don't 'burn'/kill them by not eating before doing a workout. By exercising in the morning before you eat you increase factors in the body that further increase the fat starving/muscle feeding state that you are in when you wake up in the first place.

    Aside from that, if you are doing something that puts your core under considerable pressure (usually cardio- running, rowing, etc) then eating before the workout is counter-productive, besides, you're more likely to empty your bowels by doing 20-30 minutes of hard running so it helps clear your system ready for breakfast.
    eat before the wokrout. atleast 30-40 mins before. and make sure it's light, and high gi carbs. as a result they metabolise quickly, and get in your system quickly. this allows them to be used as energy in less than an hour. so no, breakfast is very beneficial if done right.

    And the muscle burn is rather proteins/amino acids being broken and reformed so they can be used as energy, not entire cells. but considering the majority of muscle is protein, it still does damage.

    It's why they recommend the two places you should always have protein shakes in the day are: in the morning after you wake up, and after a workout.

    because if you take it in the morning, you can replace the protein being burnt in muscles, by that in the shake.

    The amount obv isn't that much in the morning, but doing exercise will aggravate it, and in the end a good portion of your energy will be from your muscles, which is counterproductive.

    the 'energy' your talking about in musces is glycogen, which doesn't take long to deplete. after about halfway through a marathon you have none of it and your completely reliant on fat, not long after you start burning muscle as well.

    it's why things like this happen:
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    (Original post by yoshifumu)
    eat before the wokrout. atleast 30-40 mins before. and make sure it's light, and high gi carbs. as a result they metabolise quickly, and get in your system quickly. this allows them to be used as energy in less than an hour. so no, breakfast is very beneficial if done right.

    And the muscle burn is rather proteins/amino acids being broken and reformed so they can be used as energy, not entire cells. but considering the majority of muscle is protein, it still does damage.

    It's why they recommend the two places you should always have protein shakes in the day are: in the morning after you wake up, and after a workout.

    because if you take it in the morning, you can replace the protein being burnt in muscles, by that in the shake.

    The amount obv isn't that much in the morning, but doing exercise will aggravate it, and in the end a good portion of your energy will be from your muscles, which is counterproductive.

    the 'energy' your talking about in musces is glycogen, which doesn't take long to deplete. after about halfway through a marathon you have none of it and your completely reliant on fat, not long after you start burning muscle as well.

    it's why things like this happen:
    I'm not saying it's wrong to eat before a workout but for fat burning I think the main thing is to maintain a positive flow of glut4 and inhibit ppar-gamma et al hence why I personally wouldn't eat much directly before a workout and nothing before morning cardio.

    I do suppose I would take dextrose if I felt I needed that boost pre-workout but in general I use post-workout (by that I mean the next ~6-8hr) to load up with any carbs I was having that day. Protein wise I believe in going for broke, just as long as the person knows that whatever isn't used will go down the toilet, literally. Although, again I'd sooner load on casein and whey for supper than take whey first thing the next morning.
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    (Original post by Zedd)
    I'm not saying it's wrong to eat before a workout but for fat burning I think the main thing is to maintain a positive flow of glut4 and inhibit ppar-gamma et al hence why I personally wouldn't eat much directly before a workout and nothing before morning cardio.

    I do suppose I would take dextrose if I felt I needed that boost pre-workout but in general I use post-workout (by that I mean the next ~6-8hr) to load up with any carbs I was having that day. Protein wise I believe in going for broke, just as long as the person knows that whatever isn't used will go down the toilet, literally. Although, again I'd sooner load on casein and whey for supper than take whey first thing the next morning.
    dunno whether loading up on protein the night before makes a difference... i think it's more effective the other way though. and post workout is really only ~1-2 hours after working out, after that the absorption slows down and the body starts to use whats already inside.

    obviously excess protein is not harmful, if anything its a safety precaution to make sure you get the most out of your workout.

    anyway my knowledge stands to be the same, after ~10 hours without food, the body is burning proteins and fats primarily, and the protein comes from the muscle itself, as a result degrading the muscle, and weakening the body, as well as lowering metabolism.
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    (Original post by Zedd)
    I'm not saying it's wrong to eat before a workout but for fat burning I think the main thing is to maintain a positive flow of glut4 and inhibit ppar-gamma et al hence why I personally wouldn't eat much directly before a workout and nothing before morning cardio.

    I do suppose I would take dextrose if I felt I needed that boost pre-workout but in general I use post-workout (by that I mean the next ~6-8hr) to load up with any carbs I was having that day. Protein wise I believe in going for broke, just as long as the person knows that whatever isn't used will go down the toilet, literally. Although, again I'd sooner load on casein and whey for supper than take whey first thing the next morning.
    There is no difference between 'fat loss' if you eat before a session or you dont. However there could be a difference in the intensity of the session if you dont eat and therefore this will effect calories out.

    Which may reduce a persons calorie deficit (if they have one at all) and nullify their weight loss.
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    (Original post by yoshifumu)
    No. you'll burn fat in the morning because you haven't eaten anything for hours, and so the body is using it's reserves. but you'll also be burning off a ton of muscle at the same time.

    the best fat burning exercises you can do are: weight lifting and HIIT.

    and you should do them half an hour AFTER eating a snack, and should eat a meal around half an hour AFTER working out.


    and the burning muscle thing is bad, because it means, if you go back to your normal eating regime, you'll gain fat much faster (as muscle is your best source of calorie burning)
    You also won't be able to work out as effectively after the loss of the muscles.
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    (Original post by Mgodwin88)
    There is no difference between 'fat loss' if you eat before a session or you dont. However there could be a difference in the intensity of the session if you dont eat and therefore this will effect calories out.

    Which may reduce a persons calorie deficit (if they have one at all) and nullify their weight loss.
    wrong, it does effect it.

    if you eat before and therefore up your glycogen stores, you're going to influence the energy use, so that you use glycogen more at the beggining, if it's anaerobic, it'll be all that you use.

    food intake influences everything, because it influences how long you can use specific energy systems. dominating how long you can work out for at varying intensities.
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    (Original post by Mgodwin88)
    There is no difference between 'fat loss' if you eat before a session or you dont.
    Sorry but I don't agree with this, my reasoning isn't that without food you'll burn more fat but that more nutrients will be used to replenish muscle rather than adipose tissues if you eat post 'morning' run. If we're talking about doing weights then this changes but for a morning run it's my experience and belief that eating before doesn't assist the process opposed to eating post-run.

    I know people are going to disagree with me, that's to be expected when everyone has an opinion, but I think there's far more options for fat loss using cardio than is being stated (I know I'm guilty of this too). Even if folk want to disregard what I'm saying you should look out for articles and published data and in the end have a better idea of works for you.

    (Original post by Ben77mc)
    You also won't be able to work out as effectively after the loss of the muscles.
    I never said starve yourself, I just said hold off until post-run. No one is saying run and eat so little that you lose mass.
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    (Original post by yoshifumu)
    Sadly this is true the other way round, for those wanting to gain muscle. it's a fairly long and arduous process to do a 'clean' bulk (muscle gain without fat gain) the fastest way is to do a 'dirty' bulk, where you gain fat and muscle at an approx. 1:1 ratio. and then do a cut, to get rid of the fat.
    firstly thanks for all the quality advice you have given so far, really helpful. i was wondering if a cut is just the same fat loss process or if 'cut' refers to a special fast process after a dirty bulk.
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    Sorry to hijack the thread but is a banana a good source of energy before a workout? I usually go spinning in the morning and do interval training usually for 40 mins or a little bit longer depending on how the instructor is feeling haha. I also have a cup of coffee to wake me up (I get up at 6am-ish...)
 
 
 
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