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    Ah, fair enough. Still, hella strong.
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    (Original post by Adonis)
    size/strength are different things blud
    I understand that.
    I was using myself as part of Subcutaneous response to Brotherhood;

    "At present there is no evidence to suggest that supplements are required for optimal muscle growth or strength gain. Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines".

    I don't do anything special with my diet, take today for example;

    4 weetabix and milk
    Cheese & Broccoli pasta with 30g cheese
    Workout
    This evening im going for dinner with the gf so will have steak but normally i'd have fishcakes, chips and peas/curry/stir fry. Then thats that, maybe a bit of chocolate if i get peckish in the evening.

    Then you've got Smack taking in grams and grams of protein which, fair enough if he thinks its working but..is it really?
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)

    Then you've got Smack taking in grams and grams of protein which, fair enough if he thinks its working but..is it really?
    from my experience, I can hold strength well with a reduced protein intake, but not size at all.

    and forget about gaining.

    however Smack, takes way too much

    guess he forgot to read the part about natural trainees can only synthesize around 1.5g/bw tops.
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)
    I only count the weight on the bar mate.
    So you can't really state that you probably eat less than 100g per day then, or can you say that you are living proof that you don't need a high protein diet for strength gains when you are one person and not the general population.
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)
    I understand that.
    I was using myself as part of Subcutaneous response to Brotherhood;

    "At present there is no evidence to suggest that supplements are required for optimal muscle growth or strength gain. Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines".

    I don't do anything special with my diet, take today for example;

    4 weetabix and milk
    Cheese & Broccoli pasta with 30g cheese
    Workout
    This evening im going for dinner with the gf so will have steak but normally i'd have fishcakes, chips and peas/curry/stir fry. Then thats that, maybe a bit of chocolate if i get peckish in the evening.

    Then you've got Smack taking in grams and grams of protein which, fair enough if he thinks its working but..is it really?
    Have you experimented with eating an un-godly amount of food for a 3-4 months?
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    lol im confused as to what exactly you're trying to prove, you've shown me 3 documents which are around 18-19years old and one which is 9 years old...and actually supports my point, protein supplements are not needed, and also from the same author...
    Fine: http://rparticle.web-p.cisti.nrc.ca/...6&msno=h06-035

    Who's talking about protein supplements, we're talking about general protein needs for athletes?

    Facts are there's conflicting evidence on both sides and plenty of anecdotal both ways too. There's no harm in ingesting more protein than the RDA and it will come naturally as part of an athlete's increased energy demands anyway. The evidence mostly is in favour of ingesting more though.

    I'm skeptical about anyone recommending a sedentary person's RDA, especially to people looking to gain or maintain mass while losing weight. There are plenty of studies that support this, nutritionists, coaches, trainers and athletes. There's some evidence the other way too, but it's not doing anyone any harm? What's the problem?
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    (Original post by Smack)
    So you can't really state that you probably eat less than 100g per day then, or can you say that you are living proof that you don't need a high protein diet for strength gains when you are one person and not the general population.
    I dont count macros, but if i did then it would be under 100g for sure.
    Today for example, probs have 50-60g in the steak tonight + ~20g in the pasta and a tiny amount in milk and weetabix. Its the same day in day out which is why im confident to state what i have stated.
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    (Original post by Mark Rippetoe)
    Have you experimented with eating an un-godly amount of food for a 3-4 months?
    I got up to 92kg i think last year and was quite fat lol.
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)
    I got up to 92kg i think last year and was quite fat lol.
    What was your cutting protocol? Just the same stuff, lower calories, more cardio?
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    (Original post by Brotherhood)
    What was your cutting protocol? Just the same stuff, lower calories, more cardio?
    Initially i didnt decide to cut, but towards the end of summer last year when i properly switched to strength training i dropped eating like a horse to get bigger and i lost a bit though that decision. Then towards xmas/new year i decided to see how low i could go while trying to get stronger. I took ECA and restricted my cals, i did go for the occasional run for a couple weeks but stopped and thats were i am now. Lowest was 76kg, im sure i lost muscle aswell as fat. Everyone commented on how bad i looked, in the face and i was noticeably thinner. So eating a bit more now and up to 79kg and i feel better for it, traning seems to as good as ever so im sticking with what im doing now until it stops working.
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)
    Initially i didnt decide to cut, but towards the end of summer last year when i properly switched to strength training i dropped eating like a horse to get bigger and i lost a bit though that decision. Then towards xmas/new year i decided to see how low i could go while trying to get stronger. I took ECA and restricted my cals, i did go for the occasional run for a couple weeks but stopped and thats were i am now. Lowest was 76kg, im sure i lost muscle aswell as fat. Everyone commented on how bad i looked, in the face and i was noticeably thinner. So eating a bit more now and up to 79kg and i feel better for it, traning seems to as good as ever so im sticking with what im doing now until it stops working.
    I'm gonna miss being weight buddies with you x
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    (Original post by Brotherhood)
    but it's not doing anyone any harm? What's the problem?
    more than 30% of the RDA in protein can put bodily systems under stress, toxic ketones, calcium loss, osteoporosis.

    This is why any type of new diet, or fitness regime..or whatever you undertake should be checked with your doctor first...and no harm? He's pissing protein, not good...
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    more than 30% of the RDA in protein can put bodily systems under stress, toxic ketones, calcium loss, osteoporosis.

    This is why any type of new diet, or fitness regime..or whatever you undertake should be checked with your doctor first...and no harm? He's pissing protein, not good...
    Q.

    I have only browsed thru this thread, and just wanted to add in.

    What effect would dehyration have on this?

    Because, I've had this amount [if not more] of protein before and no problems

    HOWEVER the only difference I can think of is, my water intake is soo much lower than it was back then

    say 2L/day now vs 5-6L/day then
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    (Original post by Adonis)
    Q.

    I have only browsed thru this thread, and just wanted to add in.

    What effect would dehyration have on this?

    Because, I've had this amount [if not more] of protein before and no problems

    HOWEVER the only difference I can think of is, my water intake is soo much lower than it was back then

    say 2L/day now vs 5-6L/day then
    I *think* High protein = kidneys work harder, so more water is lost in urine, equally in dehydration if fluid levels are not replaced, but this is just going on what i remember from a lecture 5 months ago lol
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    more than 30% of the RDA in protein can put bodily systems under stress, toxic ketones, calcium loss, osteoporosis.

    This is why any type of new diet, or fitness regime..or whatever you undertake should be checked with your doctor first...and no harm? He's pissing protein, not good...
    There's very little evidence that high protein diets are linked to impaired renal function. As long as you're getting sufficient calcium, which most people on high protein diets will, osteoporosis isn't a problem. Taking in more than 30% protein in a healthy individual will cause Ketoacidosis? Proof please.

    Who said anything about 30% anyway? You don't even know how much he's eating. He eats a lot of protein and has foamy urine, jumping to conclusions much? If he actually does have a problem, how can you say it's as a result of eating an unknown amount of protein?

    New diet? New regime? He and many others have been eating higher than average protein diets for years. I don't understand the relevance of this.
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    (Original post by Brotherhood)
    There's very little evidence that high protein diets are linked to impaired renal function. As long as you're getting sufficient calcium, which most people on high protein diets will, osteoporosis isn't a problem. Taking in more than 30% protein in a healthy individual will cause Ketoacidosis? Proof please.


    Who said anything about 30% anyway? You don't even know how much he's eating. He eats a lot of protein and has foamy urine, jumping to conclusions much? If he actually does have a problem, how can you say it's as a result of eating an unknown amount of protein? -

    New diet? New regime? He and many others have been eating higher than average protein diets for years. I don't understand the relevance of this.
    If there was little evidence, then why do patients with ckd go on low protein diets? i never said it damaged, but caused stress to the organ, and is linked to high blood pressure which has a negative feedback response on the body. Very unlikely to be CKD, but protein isn't MEANT to be in the urine, although there are small levels in the morning, its not meant to be there as protein indicates filter damage - they should be too big to fit through, unless the holes are opened by damage
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    If there was little evidence, then why do patients with ckd go on low protein diets? i never said it damaged, but caused stress to the organ, and is linked to high blood pressure which has a negative feedback response on the body. Very unlikely to be CKD, but protein isn't MEANT to be in the urine, although there are small levels in the morning, its not meant to be there as protein indicates filter damage - they should be too big to fit through, unless the holes are opened by damage
    Show me evidence then? Everything I've read suggests the opposite, especially now people from years back are getting older and experiencing no problems as a result of their past and present high protein diets.

    Protein is found in the urine of plenty of healthy people, especially after exercise. Persistent high levels might indicate he has an infection or something, but he isn't presenting any other symptoms and hasn't said it's progressing. Maybe he's mildly dehydrated and has concentrated urine? Maybe it's muco-proteins?

    If he stocks up on fluids, voids with less rapidity, cuts back on chicken/fish e.t.c. and it's still a problem, then questions can start being asked. It just seems like we've gone BODYBUILDER > HIGH PROTEIN > FOAMY URINE - KIDNEY DISEASE! It's scaremongering. There's nothing wrong with high protein diets.

    Just go to the doctor T.
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    could be a potential case of ketoacidosis
    i had that a couple of months ago and had to spend a week in hopsital stableising my fluid and sugar levels, so yeah definately get it checked out, an almost certain cause of ketoacidosis is type 1 diabetes
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    (Original post by Brotherhood)
    Show me evidence then? Everything I've read suggests the opposite, especially now people from years back are getting older and experiencing no problems as a result of their past and present high protein diets.

    Protein is found in the urine of plenty of healthy people, especially after exercise. Persistent high levels might indicate he has an infection or something, but he isn't presenting any other symptoms and hasn't said it's progressing. Maybe he's mildly dehydrated and has concentrated urine? Maybe it's muco-proteins?

    If he stocks up on fluids, voids with less rapidity, cuts back on chicken/fish e.t.c. and it's still a problem, then questions can start being asked. It just seems like we've gone BODYBUILDER > HIGH PROTEIN > FOAMY URINE - KIDNEY DISEASE! It's scaremongering. There's nothing wrong with high protein diets.

    Just go to the doctor T.
    i really..really don't know where to begin. i think you need to do your own reading on this, as..its just silly
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    i really..really don't know where to begin. i think you need to do your own reading on this, as..its just silly
    Strong response.
 
 
 
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