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Why should sunbeds and not cigarettes be banned? watch

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    (Original post by bigman_ben)
    The NHS dealing with people who have self induced problems just gives them an excuse cos if they do get ill there's the attitude of "I've paid my national insurance, the NHS can sort me out" without realising that people with genuine illnesses aren't getting the care they need cos some fat git needs liposuction and there isn't a spare bed for them.

    People are spoonfed too much and shouldn't need to have the government to come up with some campaign against not doing this or that, people know that if you sit in the sun too long you burn, eat too much you get fat etc. They make a choice and should be responsible for their actions because their problems don't happen by accident unlike some poor sod who gets cancer through no fault of their own.
    Okay, i totally agree with the first point, but the fact still stands that in terms of political capital, social capital (people's belief in the benevolence of the state) and monetary terms, it is much much cheaper to discourage people from not getting addicted to various bad substances than paying for their education and healthcare only for them to have an early death.

    The state invests hundreds of thousands of pounds in each person through education, healthcare, infrastructure. It is much better "value for money" for people to thus be discouraged from bad habits than for them to die young through making the wrong decisions, free will or no.
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    (Original post by bigman_ben)
    The NHS dealing with people who have self induced problems just gives them an excuse cos if they do get ill there's the attitude of "I've paid my national insurance, the NHS can sort me out" without realising that people with genuine illnesses aren't getting the care they need cos some fat git needs liposuction and there isn't a spare bed for them.
    So what, you pay your national insurance to get fixed up if you injure yourself. There is no obligation on the individual to avoid hurt. Who isn't getting the care they need? - thats a very loose expression and would like to see some evidence. Fat blokes don't just get liposuction by the way, it's only if a set of very specific criteria have been met. What you've also got to remember is if people keep on living older and older the government will have to spend lots of money to care for them, far more money than they spend treating cancers from smoking and sunbeds.
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    (Original post by bigman_ben)
    People are spoonfed too much and shouldn't need to have the government to come up with some campaign against not doing this or that, people know that if you sit in the sun too long you burn, eat too much you get fat etc. They make a choice and should be responsible for their actions because their problems don't happen by accident unlike some poor sod who gets cancer through no fault of their own.
    In al fairness, the majority of young people (13-21) wouldn't know sunburn causes cancer, and wouldn't believe it unless it was widely broadcast everywhere from a variety of sources. Equally, it goes the same for being fat (heart problems/bp etc) - unless lots of people tell one, one simply wouldn't know.
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    (Original post by paella)
    So what, you pay your national insurance to get fixed up if you injure yourself. There is no obligation on the individual to avoid hurt. Who isn't getting the care they need? - thats a very loose expression and would like to see some evidence. Fat blokes don't just get liposuction by the way, it's only if a set of very specific criteria have been met. What you've also got to remember is if people keep on living older and older the government will have to spend lots of money to care for them, far more money than they spend treating cancers from smoking and sunbeds.
    You don't need any evidence, there are things called NHS waiting lists and some people on these lists are clogging them up because of an illness they've caused themself. And exactly the point I'm making, if the government didn't spend money on treating self induced cancers, these people wouldn't live to old age either. Saves plenty of money.
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    (Original post by bigman_ben)
    You don't need any evidence, there are things called NHS waiting lists and some people on these lists are clogging them up because of an illness they've caused themself. And exactly the point I'm making, if the government didn't spend money on treating self induced cancers, these people wouldn't live to old age either. Saves plenty of money.
    People drive and know the risks, driving's one of the biggest killers in this country. Should they not get treatment, as they know the risk and do it anyway. Should people who drink over the government recomended amount not get any treatment if they have an alcahol related disease. By your logic in fact, anything that is caused by the individual when the individual knows the risk is ones own fault, and therefore they are not entitled to treatment.

    (Original post by bigman_ben)
    NHS waiting lists
    You're stating broad terms yet again. Give me some actual figures and I'll give you a proper response, but at the moment you're just stating buzzwords that your probably rattling off from the paper.
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    (Original post by paella)
    People drive and know the risks, driving's one of the biggest killers in this country. Should they not get treatment, as they know the risk and do it anyway. Should people who drink over the government recomended amount not get any treatment if they have an alcahol related disease. By your logic in fact, anything that is caused by the individual when the individual knows the risk is ones own fault, and therefore they are not entitled to treatment.

    You're stating broad terms yet again. Give me some actual figures and I'll give you a proper response, but at the moment you're just stating buzzwords that your probably rattling off from the paper.
    I don't know any figures and I shan't be looking for any just to satisfy you. Its just common sense that if these people were off waiting lists people more deserving of treatment will be treated sooner.
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    The problem with them draining money from the NHS is easily solved. Make people sign an NHS waiver if they want to use a sun bed :p: If you self inflict damage, you don't get it treated for free.
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    (Original post by bigman_ben)
    I don't know any figures and I shan't be looking for any just to satisfy you. Its just common sense that if these people were off waiting lists people more deserving of treatment will be treated sooner
    So in fact, your arguement is not based on fact like you earlier suggested, but 'common sence' which means very little. You don't know that there are smokers clogging up the waiting lists, you are just assuming that they are. You are also suggesting that some people are more 'deserving' of treatment, in our country healthcare is a right, not a privilige. Where everyone pays the same relative amount of tax, everyone in entitled to the same indiscriminate healthcare - and thats how a truely just system works.
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    Hi,

    I am a student at Sussex Uni and I am trying to get people to take part in my study. If you use sunbeds please can you take part at:

    www.sunbedinfo.co.uk

    It will take a max 15minutes of your time and will be a great help to me.

    Thanks

    Nicola
 
 
 
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