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    (Original post by py0alb)
    "I'm not racist, but I think muslims should adopt our culture"
    There's nothing racist about that.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Y'see, I would fundamentally disagree with this statement. Marriage is not intrinsically religious. Some people may choose to make it religious, and hold it in a church or place of worship or whatever, but in itself, it is a civil, not religious, institution (eg. I'm not religious, and that doesn't mean I'm never going to get married.)

    Allowing "gay marriage" is simply extending the same civil rights to homosexual couples as heterosexual couples. To believe that they should not be allowed this right IS discriminatory, there's no getting round that fact.

    So given the definition of homophobia as believing in different rights for homosexual and heterosexual couples, then the OP is a homophobe by that definition I'm afraid... Sorry to break up the love fest.
    That's fair enough. I've just always seen marriage as something religious. I guess my issue is with the concept of marriage itself, rather than with equal rights :p:
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    (Original post by Newsweek)
    There's nothing racist about that.
    Yes there is, because it's implying that Muslims should not have their own culture and therefore they should adopt ours, which is, in the opinion of many, better than theirs.
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    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    Earlier you said: "it doesn't really matter if you're homophobic as long as you respect the right of gay people to enjoy the same rights as everyone else." Complete oxymoron, wtf?
    Let me give you a comparison: I despise racists, including the racist (and homophobic) British National Party. However, I fully respect their right to express their disgusting views, I respect their right to assembly and to take part in free and open elections. Is this a contradiction? If not, I don't see why my statement is an oxymoron.
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    (Original post by Newsweek)
    There's nothing racist about that.
    You're beginning to annoy me, and you seem quite educated which is more the pity. When the Nazi party came to power in 1933 a lot of their policies centred around the idea of a "master race." I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you can see the problem with that. Hint: it relates to something I said earlier about discrimination and the idea of "superiority." Good, now the problem with these ideas were that 6 million Jews, gay men and black people were brutally murdered and tortured. Some people refer to this as "ethnic cleansing" - a euphemism which refers to the persecution through imprisonment, expulsion, or killing of members of an ethnic minority by a local majority to achieve ethnic homogeneity.

    I'll make this easy for you, was Hitler racist?
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    (Original post by Eva2)
    Yes there is, because it's implying that Muslims should not have their own culture and therefore they should adopt ours, which is, in the opinion of many, better than theirs.
    Race and culture are not the same thing.

    For example, I have no problem with Arabs or Asians. In fact, I think it's irrational to formulate an opinion about someone based on their skin colour. However, there's nothing wrong with formulating an opinion about someone on the basis of their culture.

    For example, many Muslims believe that gay people should be murdered. In fact, a poll carried out recently found that the vast majority of Muslims in this country think that homosexuality should be criminalised. Why should I respect such vile and dictatorial people? I sincerely hope that over time, their cultural views will be softened up.
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    (Original post by Newsweek)
    Let me give you a comparison: I despise racists, including the racist (and homophobic) British National Party. However, I fully respect their right to express their disgusting views, I respect their right to assembly and to take part in free and open elections. Is this a contradiction? If not, I don't see why my statement is an oxymoron.
    Don't give me your free speech crap. The contradiction came when you said it's ok to be homophobic as long as you respect a gay persons equal rights.
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    (Original post by Eva2)
    Yes there is, because it's implying that Muslims should not have their own culture and therefore they should adopt ours, which is, in the opinion of many, better than theirs.
    I really don't understand how or why you have neg rep. You're one of the most sensible people to ever post on this forum.
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    (Original post by Newsweek)
    Race and culture are not the same thing.

    For example, I have no problem with Arabs or Asians. In fact, I think it's irrational to formulate an opinion about someone based on their skin colour. However, there's nothing wrong with formulating an opinion about someone on the basis of their culture.

    For example, many Muslims believe that gay people should be murdered. In fact, a poll carried out recently found that the vast majority of Muslims in this country think that homosexuality should be criminalised. Why should I respect such vile and dictatorial people? I sincerely hope that over time, their cultural views will be softened up.
    Be careful mixing up peoples culture and heritage and their religious beliefs. There are a lot of unpleasant things advocated in the bible, but that doesn't mean I believe in them just because I come from a supposed Christian country.
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    I don't think it was homophobic because you added that it's not up to you to stop them, and therefore you are not forcing your opinions on anyone else. I would say the man that called you a homophobe is either politically over-sensitive, or just simply over-sensitive.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Be careful mixing up peoples culture and heritage and their religious beliefs. There are a lot of unpleasant things advocated in the bible, but that doesn't mean I believe in them just because I come from a supposed Christian country.
    There is a lot of unpleasant crap in the Bible but Judaism and Christianity have evolved quite a bit into ideologies which are bearable. On the other hand, Islam retains most of its medieval murderous intolerance.

    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    Don't give me your free speech crap. The contradiction came when you said it's ok to be homophobic as long as you respect a gay persons equal rights.
    I think I've done a pretty good job at demonstrating that it's possible to disagree with X but to tolerate X as well.
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    (Original post by Flying Cookie)
    You said you didn't agree with gay marriage. That is not homophobic, but the reasons behind it probably are.
    This :awesome:

    OP: You're perfectly right, you shouldn't do anything about your stupid opinion.

    And you're also sickeningly wrong. Gay marriage is not wrong.
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    People have been called far worse. Get over it.
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    (Original post by Newsweek)
    I think I've done a pretty good job at demonstrating that it's possible to disagree with X but to tolerate X as well.
    I disagree. Like I've already said, you have a very warped understanding of the word "tolerate" which in this context is truly laughable. I don't want somebody to "tolerate" me thank you - that implies that I am insuperior and somehow a nuisance to society. If you, or anybody else, is under the impression that you are doing the gay community a favour by tolerating homosexuality you are fostering under some sort of bigoted fallacy.

    Similarly, it is not possible to be homophobic and respect a gay person's equal rights. Homophobia stems from the belief that a person should be treated differently because of their sexual orientation. Saying that gay people should not have equal rights (i.e. they should not be able to form some sort of legally recognised union) and then claiming not to be homophobic is like me saying that black people should not be entitled to social security but that I'm not racist. This is not my opinion, it is a fact. I have my own opinion as to whether or the OP has homophobic views and thankfully this is something with which we agree - I think this debate has now made a full circle and this is clearly as far as we are ever going to get.
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    I really don't care what they call the civil ceremony between couples (straight or gay) and I believe that anyone who is willing to commit (legally) to their partner ought to receive the same tax/pension/inheritance rights. What I don't agree with is trying to push the Church to accept it and allow a religious ceremony - homosexuality is wrong under every major religious doctrine and I think it's wrong to try and force them to countenance it.
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    I totally agree with your statement but unfortunately quite a few people will conceive it as homophobic even though we are only saying our opinions.

    I usually keep my 'homophobic' comments to myself (-___-) -sigh- so much for freedom of expression.
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    (Original post by The Referee)
    I really don't care what they call the civil ceremony between couples (straight or gay) and I believe that anyone who is willing to commit (legally) to their partner ought to receive the same tax/pension/inheritance rights. What I don't agree with is trying to push the Church to accept it and allow a religious ceremony - homosexuality is wrong under every major religious doctrine and I think it's wrong to try and force them to countenance it.
    I'm gay and I agree with you completely. But why a gay person ever feels the need to marry in accordance with a religion which is quite happy to persecute them I will never know. I suspect that there will be a few religious gay men and women who disagree with you but then that depends largely upon their own interpretation of the bible; which as I know very little about, feel no need to comment.

    (Original post by Trishyy)
    I usually keep my 'homophobic' comments to myself (-___-) -sigh- so much for freedom of expression.
    Edit: And, your right to express homophobic comments is not one which is given effect to by Art. 10, please don't grace it as such.
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    I got called a homosexual.
    C'est la vie.
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    (Original post by Trishyy)
    I totally agree with your statement but unfortunately quite a few people will conceive it as homophobic even though we are only saying our opinions.

    I usually keep my 'homophobic' comments to myself (-___-) -sigh- so much for freedom of expression.

    Feel free to express them. It's your opinion and you should be proud of it and defend it until you are convinced otherwise.
    Just don't complain when someone accurately points out that you are a homophobe.
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    (Original post by The Referee)
    What I don't agree with is trying to push the Church to accept it and allow a religious ceremony - homosexuality is wrong under every major religious doctrine and I think it's wrong to try and force them to countenance it.
    This is true. The church should simply admit that it is intrinsically homophobic, like it or lump it, and we can all get on with our lives in full knowledge of what it means to be religious.
 
 
 
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