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England: The Evil Empire Watch

  • View Poll Results: What do you think?
    Britain was just like any other European imperialist power
    39.58%
    Britain was particularly evil and particularly destructive
    15.28%
    Britain wasn't as bad as the others
    32.64%
    Other / Don't care
    12.50%

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    (Original post by Onion Terror)
    I'd like to know where they plan to get £50 trillion from our government. :p:
    I'd like to know where they'd get 50p from the government :p:

    I know there may be a good deal of tongue-in-cheek humour here, but this man really gets my blood boiling!
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    (Original post by Onion Terror)
    True true. I think he's just a shock author like Ann Coulter. Sold his soul and credibility for a few quid.
    I remember picking the book up once in Waterstone's and just remember being a little :lolwut:

    Some people are prepared to be disreputable - makes the rest of us look better!
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    (Original post by road)
    if Britain closes your bases other European countries will follow.With the BNP we also won't be your puppets in new wars like Iraq
    Why would the other ones follow? If the BNP ever got elected, they would make Britain an isolationist country. The rest of Europe is still all in favor of keeping NATO going.

    (Original post by dzeh)
    aye cos england dropped two nukes on japan and killed thousands of civilians
    Nah, you just found some other way to do it.
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    We can barely afford to fund our own country, nevermind a reparations scheme for the whole world
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    Well, the man is a nutcase with no grasp of history.

    I don't think 'evil' is the right word to use either. Today we generally agree that the subjugation of peoples to an imperial master is wrong, and we believe in self-determination. However, during the age of empire, attitudes were very different among the so-called civilised powers, the US included.

    For this reason I don't think we can censure such an imperial past as evil. Exploitative, archaic and misguided, yes, but not evil.

    To be honest, though Britain was the most prolific imperial power, it was by no means the most brutal in its methods of sustaining power and influence, or governing its territories in general. On the contrary, the British (some of them) at least believed that they were spreading civilisation. Earlier imperialists (18th century and early 19th) even thought that much could be learned from other cultures with a great heritage (India and China in particular). During the 19th century, more racist attitudes began to take prominence, but this was common to all powerful countries.

    The French weren't too bad either, but if we compare Britain's treatment of imperial subjects with, say, the Portuguese, then we see that the latter was corrupt and medieval in its methods.

    To label Britain 'the evil empire' just makes me laugh.
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    Why does it always have to be compared to other empires? This defence of it really annoys me. 'Oh, well proportionately less people were killed and less countries had their civilisations destroyed and lands taken away'. So what if it wasn't the meanest baddest empire of all time EVER, it was still despicable. Don't defend it. I think it's kind of glossed over, particularly Ireland because it wasn't seen as part of the empire since it was part of the UK for a century or so, never mind the fact it never wanted to be.

    It's still a ridiculous video and book by the way..I'll have to see if he mentions Ireland.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Why does it always have to be compared to other empires? This defence of it really annoys me. 'Oh, well proportionately less people were killed and less countries had their civilisations destroyed and lands taken away'. So what if it wasn't the meanest baddest empire of all time EVER, it was still despicable. Don't defend it. I think it's kind of glossed over, particularly Ireland because it wasn't seen as part of the empire since it was part of the UK for a century or so, never mind the fact it never wanted to be.

    It's still a ridiculous video and book by the way..I'll have to see if he mentions Ireland.
    True. I read textbooks at school glorifying the Roman Empire and how the Romans made 'us' and how primitive a civilisation we would have been had it not been for the Romans. Well, you don't need to create an Empire to benefit other civilisations, you can do this in trade, whether trading goods or sharing knowledge. Same principle. Why the Colosseum is not considered a landmark of terrorism is beyond me.

    Good point about Ireland, I guess the same can be considered with Tibet in China and the likes of Croatia and Chechnya with the Former Republic of Yugoslavia.
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    (Original post by tomcuk123)
    The author of this book really is an obnoxious, arrogant idiot.
    Yeah, it doesn't even look like he wrote it tongue in cheek.
    On this case I think you are allowed to judge a book by it's cover..
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Why does it always have to be compared to other empires? This defence of it really annoys me. 'Oh, well proportionately less people were killed and less countries had their civilisations destroyed and lands taken away'. So what if it wasn't the meanest baddest empire of all time EVER, it was still despicable. Don't defend it. I think it's kind of glossed over, particularly Ireland because it wasn't seen as part of the empire since it was part of the UK for a century or so, never mind the fact it never wanted to be.

    It's still a ridiculous video and book by the way..I'll have to see if he mentions Ireland.
    we'll defend our empire to death.It wasn't despicable, you are jealous that we were simply the best country in the world and we could be again if it wasn't for the Liblabcons
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Why does it always have to be compared to other empires? This defence of it really annoys me. 'Oh, well proportionately less people were killed and less countries had their civilisations destroyed and lands taken away'. So what if it wasn't the meanest baddest empire of all time EVER, it was still despicable. Don't defend it. I think it's kind of glossed over, particularly Ireland because it wasn't seen as part of the empire since it was part of the UK for a century or so, never mind the fact it never wanted to be.

    It's still a ridiculous video and book by the way..I'll have to see if he mentions Ireland.
    It's not about comparing it with other empires, so far as I'm concerned, but with other governments. Governments are only legitimate in my eyes as a consequence of their actions: if the British were replacing a worse government then that, to me, is a positive act.

    Regarding Ireland "wanting" things in 1800, it's irrelevant. The previous, sovereign Irish Parliament didn't give a toss about what people wanted either - its electorate was a tiny fraction of the Irish population, just as the British Parliament of the time was. If you're going to then make a nationalist argument to this, it is worth me responding now that 'nations' only really exist because of political states being carved out - usually through dodgy means - in the past. My native Scotland, for example, is only Scotland because a certain tribe invaded from Ireland, intermarried with some other Royal houses, invaded some other areas, did a wee bit of ethnic cleansing then called what they had a Kingdom. Nothing to do with consent or some sort of spontaneous sense of self-identity.
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    (Original post by road)
    I don't think you can accuse BNP of racism.India is one of the most racist countries in the world
    Of course you can you fool. :wtf: What does it matter if India is racist too? The BNP/BNP members are racist narrow-minded bigots whose reasoning is both primitive and absurdly comical.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Good point about Ireland, I guess the same can be considered with Tibet in China and the likes of Croatia and Chechnya with the Former Republic of Yugoslavia.
    The only difference being Tibet and China, Croatia and Chechnya, are the same land mass. Ireland's surrounded by a good amount of sea. It was never enough for the British to stick to their own island, they needed to expand onto other islands
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Regarding Ireland "wanting" things in 1800, it's irrelevant. The previous, sovereign Irish Parliament didn't give a toss about what people wanted either - its electorate was a tiny fraction of the Irish population, just as the British Parliament of the time was. If you're going to then make a nationalist argument to this, it is worth me responding now that 'nations' only really exist because of political states being carved out - usually through dodgy means - in the past. My native Scotland, for example, is only Scotland because a certain tribe invaded from Ireland, intermarried with some other Royal houses, invaded some other areas, did a wee bit of ethnic cleansing then called what they had a Kingdom. Nothing to do with consent or some sort of spontaneous sense of self-identity.
    And the rest is history...
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    (Original post by L i b)
    It's not about comparing it with other empires, so far as I'm concerned, but with other governments. Governments are only legitimate in my eyes as a consequence of their actions: if the British were replacing a worse government then that, to me, is a positive act.

    Regarding Ireland "wanting" things in 1800, it's irrelevant. The previous, sovereign Irish Parliament didn't give a toss about what people wanted either - its electorate was a tiny fraction of the Irish population, just as the British Parliament of the time was. If you're going to then make a nationalist argument to this, it is worth me responding now that 'nations' only really exist because of political states being carved out - usually through dodgy means - in the past. My native Scotland, for example, is only Scotland because a certain tribe invaded from Ireland, intermarried with some other Royal houses, invaded some other areas, did a wee bit of ethnic cleansing then called what they had a Kingdom. Nothing to do with consent or some sort of spontaneous sense of self-identity.


    There's a horrendous amount of 'It wasn't as bad as the Roman/Ottoman/insert empire here empire' comments around this site, which is what I meant. Anyway, I don't really give a crap about what the Irish government at the time wanted since precious few of them cared about the population other than the gentry. Ireland never really had a major modern times chance at it's own Irish-ruled (ie. no Poynings law crap or any British interference whatsoever) government so it's hard to comment on that really. The fact that there was a High Kingship over the provinces suggests that centralisation was inevitable at some stage.
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    (Original post by indigoblue)
    The only difference being Tibet and China, Croatia and Chechnya, are the same land mass. Ireland's surrounded by a good amount of sea. It was never enough for the British to stick to their own island, they needed to expand onto other islands
    The point remains - colonialisation need not be considered as one sovereign state invading another these days. To be fair I'm still pissed at the Vatican for their involvement in the Norman conquest stating that God was on the Normans' side.
 
 
 
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