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"...Western society will either die out or be Islamised" Watch

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    (Original post by xps.systems)
    Muslims like their alcohol too much as well.

    Just because they are Mohammedians doesn't mean they don't drink.

    squish.
    Isn't alcohol haraam?

    Thus if they are breaking some of the strict rules of their religion they're hardly dedicated Muslims are they? I'd say those who drink are certainly on their way to being westernised.
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    Alcohol is strictly forbidden in Islam, and who drinks is considered to be commiting a big sin, but he's still a Muslim.
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    I believe that there are many loyal muslims who conform to society and respect its values as a democracy. Equally, there are many muslims who disgrace the nation they live/eat/breath/are protected in. This is a mere form of hypocrisy and treason (take Abu Hamza for example) which should be severely punished - in the previous centuries (and today in Arabia )it was/is the death penalty. I cannot call these type of people muslims simply because they do not follow the qu'ran. The burkha for muslim women should represent the values that a woman has and that she is not a 'symbol for sex.' Instead many women wear it with the intention to alienate themselves and show the difference between them and the rest of society.
    Radical muslims and clerics cannot be classed as muslim. They dishonour the teachings shown by their prophet and claim jihad as their weapon against the west and its 'infidels.' Many a times have I heard Muslims say 'Goras' (or white people) cannot be trusted; they live filthy lives etc etc (I speak Gujarati like them). I think they have no right to judge.
    For the human race to find common ground and live as a community, one race cannot be judgemental against another. Elements of Islam and virutally all religions will always prevent this.
    I have not attacked Islam here as we can all find faults with other faiths as well. What I have said pertains to this thread alone.
    No religon supercedes morality. Morality is the essence of religion and this was taught by ALL prophets and teachers.
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    I find it very hard to believe. How do we know in the next 18 years (and why 18?) Islamic fundamentalism will be on the map? Some people are already arguing that we're living in a post-islamist word.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Discuss
    No :mfing:
    • Thread Starter
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    I find it very hard to believe. How do we know in the next 18 years (and why 18?) Islamic fundamentalism will be on the map? Some people are already arguing that we're living in a post-islamist word.
    It was a set question of what are societies big issues in the next 18 years...
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    (Original post by stainluss)
    Then why choose London?
    Pakistan and those countries would have a safer lifestyle as it is an islamic nation.

    Im not telling you thats where you should be
    im just curious about your views and living in London?

    Furthermore, i think it is wrong to say it is more civilized.

    It is sexist and brutal in its punishments.

    The UK may have a lot of chavs etc. but the government and the police are quite liberal. They lock you away for bad things.

    They dont whip women for wearing trousers.. Do you belive that these islamic countries oppose freedom?:confused:

    It certainly seems like they do, ZizAli
    Everyone is intitled to thier own interpretations. If i had it my way, i would free all humans from comulsory behaviour. Including muslim women, the main thing the quran states is that there is no compulsion in islam. I would then reassign power to people who understand laws and the teachings of islam. Why are women being whipped? That is intolerable if they do not accept islam they are not obliged to its punishments, however if they claim to be true muslims then they wouldnt wear trousers etc.
    But going back to the point i dont walk around london in digust, i love london, the diversity and the buzz around it. Im just saying that when people say islam is poison, islam is this that and the other then its a bit disrespectful.
    I do believe islamic lifestyle is better then western, but i keep that to myself and allow other to live how they wish, however when they bash islam i will try to defend it when i can.
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    (Original post by Meus)
    People's objections against it seem to vary between the irrelevant and the relevent but rarely do you find the dislikes inherient to Islam itself. For example Islam is "evil" because it calls for the stoning of adulterers. Christianity is not evil despite God citing the same punishment in the Bible - the fact that it is not longer practised should be noted, but how does that balance into the thinking of an individual when giving judgements about God himself? You see, I don't think it is as much of an attempt to evaluate or measure specific doctrines - but instead a clash of ethics. Even modern Christianity which is more moderate than Islam and Judaism, is being targeted to further liberealise.

    You even said it yourself (pardon me if I'm wrong), that religion in its current form will die if it does not change to something more socially acceptable. Islam is Christianity centuries ago, but it refuses to be defined by cultural developments. If it was, if you saw Islamic doctrine re-written tomorrow, you would find people still unwilling to accept it the day after.
    Well, I think moderate Islam will continue to exist in Britain for a while. If people are presented with a more relaxed, tolerant version of Islam then there will be less objection to it. (That isn't just down to the actions of British Muslims, unfortunately, but also the image Muslims in other countries present to Brits). That will mostly only leave xenophobes who oppose Islam because Islam (and it's adherents) and foreign, and I do not think that xenophobia is powerful enough to make much impact in today's society.

    I think Britain can tolerate multiple ethical systems as long as the ethical systems are tolerant of others and do not seem to impose themselves on those who are vulnerable. Islam as practised by many people presently can probably fit that description, without needing to "liberalise" (although there will undoubtedly be pressures for it to do so, but that is just the nature of society).
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    . Im just saying that when people say islam is poison, islam is this that and the other then its a bit disrespectful.
    I do believe islamic lifestyle is better then western, but i keep that to myself and allow other to live how they wish, however when they bash islam i will try to defend it when i can.
    Understood.

    What i was trying to put across (in the 1st post)Is that only the 3/4% of muslims that belive in extremism are poisonous

    I dont have a problem with any of the others, they are as entitled to walk the streets as everyone else
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    (Original post by stainluss)
    Understood.

    What i was trying to put across (in the 1st post)Is that only the 3/4% of muslims that belive in extremism are poisonous

    I dont have a problem with any of the others, they are as entitled to walk the streets as everyone else
    Yh some exremeists are mad, they are trying to be forceful and violent when they are instructed opposite in thier holy book. Not all extremists are bad, an extremists means someone who does thier utmost. I would love to be an extremist muslim, meaning i would be peaceful, steadfast, helpful etc. But the extremist type you are talking about are indeed muslim. However i dont know if it was you but someone made a much more broader statement that "islam is poisonous". This was very disrespectful.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Yh some exremeists are mad, they are trying to be forceful and violent when they are instructed opposite in thier holy book. Not all extremists are bad, an extremists means someone who does thier utmost. I would love to be an extremist muslim, meaning i would be peaceful, steadfast, helpful etc. But the extremist type you are talking about are indeed muslim. However i dont know if it was you but someone made a much more broader statement that "islam is poisonous". This was very disrespectful.
    The only sort of extremist the media refer to is th terrorist which i suppose shine a bad light on it.

    No i dont think that was me.. I have a few muslim friends and we rarely talk about religion but i certainly wouldnt be against them.
    I know they are nice, genuine people
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    (Original post by ∑ Я ĩ k ė s ħ ξ)
    I believe that there are many loyal muslims who conform to society and respect its values as a democracy. Equally, there are many muslims who disgrace the nation they live/eat/breath/are protected in. This is a mere form of hypocrisy and treason (take Abu Hamza for example) which should be severely punished - in the previous centuries (and today in Arabia )it was/is the death penalty. I cannot call these type of people muslims simply because they do not follow the qu'ran. The burkha for muslim women should represent the values that a woman has and that she is not a 'symbol for sex.' Instead many women wear it with the intention to alienate themselves and show the difference between them and the rest of society.
    Radical muslims and clerics cannot be classed as muslim. They dishonour the teachings shown by their prophet and claim jihad as their weapon against the west and its 'infidels.' Many a times have I heard Muslims say 'Goras' (or white people) cannot be trusted; they live filthy lives etc etc (I speak Gujarati like them). I think they have no right to judge.
    For the human race to find common ground and live as a community, one race cannot be judgemental against another. Elements of Islam and virutally all religions will always prevent this.
    I have not attacked Islam here as we can all find faults with other faiths as well. What I have said pertains to this thread alone.
    No religon supercedes morality. Morality is the essence of religion and this was taught by ALL prophets and teachers.
    Are you muslim? If not, how can you tell/decide who is muslim or not? Tell me specifically what somebody did and why it puts them outside the fold of Islam.
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    (Original post by chingquey)
    Are you muslim? If not, how can you tell/decide who is muslim or not? Tell me specifically what somebody did and why it puts them outside the fold of Islam.
    No I am not muslim. I can tell though...by accent, views and appearance. For example, I have one friend. Shes pakistani by origin, shes very nice and all and we get on fine. But she would mention white people and always distinguish between them and her religion/asians.

    And what example are you looking for and why?
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    (Original post by ∑ Я ĩ k ė s ħ ξ)
    No I am not muslim. I can tell though...by accent, views and appearance. For example, I have one friend. Shes pakistani by origin, shes very nice and all and we get on fine. But she would mention white people and always distinguish between them and her religion/asians.

    And what example are you looking for and why?
    You act as if you know what makes a person muslim and what nullifies their faith. You have no idea, so kindly desist from pretending that you do.
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    (Original post by chingquey)
    You act as if you know what makes a person muslim and what nullifies their faith. You have no idea, so kindly desist from pretending that you do.
    Pretending? haha, mate I converse with many of them. I am in education with them...what makes you think I know nothing? Secondly I talk to them about their views. And I don't just look at one opinion. Note I said a lot of respect this society.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Islam is barbaric, unacceptable. It teaches capital punishment for murderers. What outrage in 21st century. Now we are modern enough to deal with this situation by killing thousands of innocent people from the home country of the murderers. Praise be to western justice.
    If you don't know the difference between murder and war then you're stupid.
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    (Original post by xps.systems)
    Muslims like their alcohol too much as well.

    Just because they are Mohammedians doesn't mean they don't drink.

    squish.
    Go get some sleep mate.
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