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"...Western society will either die out or be Islamised" Watch

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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    I’m sorry but in that respect all you had to do was read all his posts and not just ‘most’ and then respond. Instead you decided to launch into a ‘omg how is he a racist omg omg’ all the while openly admitting you did not have all the information.
    Rule Britannia said and I qoute‘multiculturalism is incompatible with democracy’
    Ya because black and white people living side by side is a total hindrance of a ‘political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them’

    And some more wise words

    Multi-culturalism is the poison, those of an alien culture residing in the UK are part of that process
    Actually what I said was multi-culturalism is incompatible with democracy and the right to national self-determination.

    Multi-culturalism is not incompatible with democracy.

    It is incompatible with democracy and the right to national self-determination. I hope you now understand and can appreciate that is not a racist comment.

    I do think that multi-culturalism undermines the right of British people to live in a society whose laws and ethical guidelines are derived from their own culture. This is true by definition in a democracy as minorities will have influence. As such I do think multi-culturalism is a poison when viewed from the perspective of someone who not only believes in democracy but also self-determination of nations. It is a poison because it undermines British peoples ability to live in a British society.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    ...

    I do think that multi-culturalism undermines the right of British people to live in a society whose laws and ethical guidelines are derived from their own culture...
    Are you suggesting that we should be told what culture we can and cannot adopt? Do you, or the government, have the right to tell me I can't eat spicy food, listen to 'foreign' music or adopt a religion that has its origins in the middle-east (like, say, Christianity or Islam)? When people say 'their own culture' I always suspect that they mean 'the culture I want to see around me'.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Are you suggesting that we should be told what culture we can and cannot adopt? Do you, or the government, have the right to tell me I can't eat spicy food, listen to 'foreign' music or adopt a religion that has its origins in the middle-east (like, say, Christianity or Islam)? When people say 'their own culture' I always suspect that they mean 'the culture I want to see around me'.
    Do you or the government have the right to undermine the views on say women's rights shared by the great majority of our cultural group through the importing of individuals with different views and bestowing them with democratic rights?

    If yes then that is much more tyrannical then anything I can be accused of - making millions of people live in a state whose laws is in contravention to their beliefs. If no then clearly you're forced to agree with me. Nobody said you cannot eat spicy food or listen to foreign music, what an absurd thing to say. I just believe importing individuals whose beliefs are strongly at odds with those of the vast majority of our culture is a fundamentally anti-democratic process.
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    (Original post by MFX1209)
    yeah, :ahee: acohol, nice. nice that arabs gave it us. its an arab word mate. just like coffee, but i cant belive some dunce wrote a thread about whether islam accepts coffee coz its a stimulant...the ******* invented it! ffs.


    are there some dumb *******s on this forum or what?


    alcohol :teeth:
    The only 'dumb *******' as you put it is you, Arabs did not invent alcohol they merely succeeding in distilling it into a pure form i.e. ethanol in the 8th and 9th centuries. Alcohol in the form of drinks from fermented fruits existed thousands of years before this in Greece, Egypt, China, and India. Long before the Abbasid Caliphate and its chemists.

    Perhaps you should undertake some comprehension exercises in order to understand what I said. I said Islamification of Europe is unlikely as the Europeans like alcohol (in the form of alcoholic beverages) too much. They're highly unlikely to join a religion that considers one of their favourite drinks/past times haraam, it's too ingrained in the culture.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    Actually what I said was multi-culturalism is incompatible with democracy and the right to national self-determination.

    Multi-culturalism is not incompatible with democracy.

    It is incompatible with democracy and the right to national self-determination. I hope you now understand and can appreciate that is not a racist comment.

    I do think that multi-culturalism undermines the right of British people to live in a society whose laws and ethical guidelines are derived from their own culture. This is true by definition in a democracy as minorities will have influence. As such I do think multi-culturalism is a poison when viewed from the perspective of someone who not only believes in democracy but also self-determination of nations. It is a poison because it undermines British peoples ability to live in a British society.
    Oh please stop trying to justify your comments.
    'Self-determination is defined as free choice of one’s own acts without external compulsion; and especially as the freedom of the people of a given territory to determine their own political status or independence from their current state. In other words, it is the right of the people of a certain nation to decide how they want to be governed without the influence of any other country.' is the Wikipedia definition of self-determination in politics. I fail to see how multi-culturalism prevents people from determining their 'independence' If a black/brown/yellow/green person in born in Britain then that makes them part of that given territory. Thus meaning your attempt at trying to cover your racist comments fails.
    Again I have been born and bred in Britain this therefore makes me British and I fail to see how I impact on other people’s ability to live in a ‘British society’
    Unless by British, you mean standard Nick Griffin’s definition.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    ...Nobody said you cannot eat spicy food or listen to foreign music, what an absurd thing to say...
    Yet these things are part of multiculturalism as far as I'm concerned. If you want to criticise religion, even a particular religion, by all means do so, but when you make reference to multiculturalism you are making reference to all kinds of things I very much value; the freedom to adopt or participate in whatever multiplicities of cultural life I choose.

    Time and again I see the term 'multiculturalism' being used as a blunt tool to criticse Islam or Islamic extremism (or is it really the other way around?).
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    Oh please stop trying to justify your comments.
    'Self-determination is defined as free choice of one’s own acts without external compulsion; and especially as the freedom of the people of a given territory to determine their own political status or independence from their current state. In other words, it is the right of the people of a certain nation to decide how they want to be governed without the influence of any other country.' is the Wikipedia definition of self-determination in politics. I fail to see how multi-culturalism prevents people from determining their 'independence' If a black/brown/yellow/green person in born in Britain then that makes them part of that given territory. Thus meaning your attempt at trying to cover your racist comments fails.
    Again I have been born and bred in Britain this therefore makes me British and I fail to see how I impact on other people’s ability to live in a ‘British society’
    Unless by British, you mean standard Nick Griffin’s definition.
    I read all of this and wondered which bit you didn't seem to understand. I eventually found the word you were not understanding.

    Nation.

    From your own source - wikipedia - this is the definition of a nation "A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin, who typically inhabit a particular country or territory."

    Now please re-read everything you just said and realise that my view is not racist - it is in fact the mainstream. Using my principles here - every major government on the face of this planet* recognised the independence of Kosovo from Serbia for the sake of the Albanian nation.

    *excepting Russia for reasons of realpolitik.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    I read all of this and wondered which bit you didn't seem to understand. I eventually found the word you were not understanding.

    Nation.

    From your own source - wikipedia - this is the definition of a nation "A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin, who typically inhabit a particular country or territory."

    Now please re-read everything you just said and realise that my view is not racist - it is in fact the mainstream. Using my principles here - every major government on the face of this planet* recognised the independence of Kosovo from Serbia for the sake of the Albanian nation.

    *excepting Russia for reasons of realpolitik.
    I understand every single word but I think like most normal people do. I speak English this therefore means I am part of that nation. My grandparents came over in say the 40's that means they share 68 years of 'history' as 'standard Nick Griffin British people'

    Your view is racist at least have the balls to admit it.
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    I understand every single word but I think like most normal people do. I speak English this therefore means I am part of that nation. My grandparents came over in say the 40's that means they share 68 years of 'history' as 'standard Nick Griffin British people'

    Your view is racist at least have the balls to admit it.
    As a Muslim you clearly belong to a different culture so your claim to be part of the British nation falls flat on its face. No racism there.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    As a Muslim you clearly belong to a different culture so your claim to be part of the British nation falls flat on its face. No racism there.
    Fail.

    My uncle who is by your definitions 'British' converted to Islam a few years ago. So because he is a Muslim he has now does not belong to British culture?

    Let me clarify for you.
    Islam - Religion
    Britain- Nation

    Therefore you're logic fails.

    I am part of the British nation as I was 'born' here :rolleyes: I invest in British culture the fact that I am a Muslim makes no difference.
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    Frankly, Muslims are just as misguided as Catholics, Hindus and Sikhs as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps Muslims are more devout, but they're just as wrong as any other religious person. I'm more worried about the fact that religion isn't dying out in this supposedly civilised, enlightened world than I am about Muslims taking over the world....
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    As a Muslim you clearly belong to a different culture so your claim to be part of the British nation falls flat on its face. No racism there.
    That has a pretty obviously racist undertone dude, given that most Muslims in Britain are non-white. British culture is defined by what British people do, whether they are atheists, agnostics, Christians, Pagans, Muslims or whatever. Obviously if you are a Muslim there might be aspects of your cultural life which relate to Islam, just as there might be if you are a Roman Catholic or Pagan, but to suggest being Muslim or being Roman Catholic or Pagan your religious culture stands apart from British culture then you're just not recognising the reality; British culture includes all kinds of religious practices.
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    (Original post by ashy)
    Frankly, Muslims are just as misguided as Catholics, Hindus and Sikhs as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps Muslims are more devout, but they're just as wrong as any other religious person. I'm more worried about the fact that religion isn't dying out in this supposedly civilised, enlightened world than I am about Muslims taking over the world....
    It just needs a little perspective. Islam has come to modernity more recently and under different conditions to those under which Christianity has. Check out Victorian or Edwardian British society and you'll find some widespread religious conservatism in a Christian context - horror at the working class not attending church and even showing an ankle in public was considered to lower a woman's virtue among the middle- and upper-classes. Muslims in Britain today may seem unduly devout and conservative to the rest of us because we've had the benefit of a recent secularisation in public and private life - so it's really as much about us having broken free from the authority of religion as it is about Muslims being 'highly religious'.
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    (Original post by Rule Britannia)
    As a Muslim you clearly belong to a different culture so your claim to be part of the British nation falls flat on its face. No racism there.
    Did you not read what you wrote before you thought about pressing the "Submit reply" Button :rofl:
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    (Original post by blank_blank)
    im a muslim teen, and im not that religious tbh...but it wont be 'muslimified' (lol)

    and all these muslims on the news are all extremists and if you have friends who are like the western society is s**t then they are just naive and old fashioned and you shouldnt look down on them they're just not up to date with this whole system..so ppl saying the west will change then no it won't, you all need to chill..

    and like i said being a muslim teen, seeing all these extremists does annoy me and im sure other muslims too...thought id mention.
    I totally agree, mayb this has been said but if i read the remaining 9 pages, i would have smashed my laptop.

    Extremists cause more bad than good always, as well as trying to breed fear in general 'rival' communities, they do so to their own brothers and sisters.
    They're far too didactic and are responsible for such beliefs like
    'islam is poison'
    Islam is a way of life
    as is christianity, judaism, atheism and being agnostic.
    The idea of An Islamised britain is again something derived from those ranting and raving extremists on tele.
    They drink more in places like afghanistan than they do in the US
    kmt. not happening. ever. Way more New age Muslims than Extremists anyway
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    It just needs a little perspective. Islam has come to modernity more recently and under different conditions to those under which Christianity has. Check out Victorian or Edwardian British society and you'll find some widespread religious conservatism in a Christian context - horror at the working class not attending church and even showing an ankle in public was considered to lower a woman's virtue among the middle- and upper-classes. Muslims in Britain today may seem unduly devout and conservative to the rest of us because we've had the benefit of a recent secularisation in public and private life - so it's really as much about us having broken free from the authority of religion as it is about Muslims being 'highly religious'.
    Yet your point still revolves around "religion = bad", "secularism = good".
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    (Original post by ashy)
    Yet your point still revolves around "religion = bad", "secularism = good".
    Sort of, I tend to think "organised and politicised religion = bad", "individualised and personalised religion = better".
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Sort of, I tend to think "organised and politicised religion = bad", "individualised and personalised religion = better".
    Agreed. My take on it is similar; I dislike organised religion and would much rather people make up their own minds. Consider your own views, moral centre and spiritual views of yourself. If there's room for a God like entity then fine, but there's no reason to subscribe to a mass delusion.
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    (Original post by ashy)
    Agreed. My take on it is similar; I dislike organised religion and would much rather people make up their own minds. Consider your own views, moral centre and spiritual views of yourself. If there's room for a God like entity then fine, but there's no reason to subscribe to a mass delusion.
    What I'd add is that religion isn't going to go away any time soon so for us secularists I think it's better to support moderate and pluralist religious orientations rather than offer one-size-fits-all hostility to religion per se. This is why I so despise the likes of the BNP, their ultimate agenda is racist but they find it convenient to promote the idea that a whole religion (Islam) and all of its followers represent fanatical would-be terrorism when in fact the vast majority of Muslims themselves oppose and are worried about the small minority who are radicalised (and in a global context it's mostly Muslims who are being killed by this minority too).
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    If you don't know the difference between murder and war then you're stupid.
    So are you saying that the war today in Iraq & Afghanistan is not a consequence of 9/11 at all?
 
 
 
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